I’m currently playing lots of games none of which are soulslikes, though, funnily enough :D Juggling Hunt Showdown, Slay the Spire 2 and Esoteric Ebb right now - enjoying my time with all of them.
What I mean by genre mash-up is a game of a different genre that uses aspects of soulslikes and incorporates them in a transformative way to create something new. Think, something like Nine Sols which is a sidescroller, maybe a metroidvania too? (please correct me if I’m wrong) that took inspiration from Sekiro’s combat with its heavy focus on parries to create a cool mix of both. Or Hollow Knight for an easier example.
I don’t think I’ve ever played a game like that before outside HK, maybe, but purely concept-wise, I like the idea of Remnant. Shooters are usually relatively light on using gear and spatial movement during combat, exceptions like DOOM or Borderlands proving the rule, which makes Remnant an interesting mash-up. It borrows from soulslikes but is primarily a shooter, still.
What’s yours?
Woooo… Fuck yeah!!! Congrats!!!
I think Simon has the most HP of all the bosses in the base game?. . . but maybe not by that much.
The first playthrough was the other way around for me, simon phase 2 I struggled with but NP phase 2 was not terribly hard (I truly felt his difficulty on NG+, and holy shit he gets tanky )
I love how the two health bar concept worked narratively and design wise. For me there were like… 3 cases , in which the difficulty gap between the two phases felt too large, and flawlessly doing phase one ended up being the strat as well ( It does add to the high of the win. Wins are so fucking sweet in this game.)
Ok, 3 questions for now, and I’ll save some specific ones for later.
1.- Since these last two fights are fresh on your mind: How did you like the FS homage elements in them?
2.- As a build variety enjoyer, do you feel that the tools that the game gives the player sufficiently make up for the lack of it? Does it impact replayability for you?
3.- Who’s your favourite boss so far? (And why?)
Lastly, enjoy the dlc!! It’s fantastic… I’m vicariously excited for you to experience it!
Thanks :)
Answers:
1.) Damn, did I miss FS homage elements? Nameless Puppet reminded me, based on the arena and the stance and the flips, a bit of Artorias. Simon looks a bit like Morgott in his initial presentation. I’m thinking about his mid-battle cutscene, but that reminded me of that Michelangelo painting, only here it’s not Adam touching God but Simon reaching out to his own divinity, pretty egocentric but on point.
2.) Not entirely. You don’t have a magic system or similar and Perfect Guard seems to be what you want to do in most situations. And also though it has many different weapons you can’t access them immediately. In other Fromsoft titles you can make a beeline directly to your choosen weapon. For example, I once fought Elemer of the Briar as my first Boss in Elden Ring to get his sword. In Lies of P you have to go follow the linear path until you can pick the stuff up. BUT I haven’t seriously tried many of these weapons even early game ones and I haven’t really tried item spamming or the Legion Arms. I don’t think a build centered on items would be that fun (I don’t know how viable that even is.). Legions Arms seemed a bit dull and underutilized, but I just picked up a DLC Legion Arm where you throw disc blade – very fun.
It probably impacts replayability for me, but on the whole my game knowledge is a bit lacking and even with what I know now I’m probably going to replay it a bit. The promo weapon you get at the beginning with the parry dodge looks quite interesting.
3.) The last 3 Bosses were each uniquely, extremely good. It might be because I’m riding still a bit on a high, but Nameless Puppet might be my favorite. Presentation, difficulty, and the satisfaction you especially get from this fight were quite special. Cutting of halve of their head and their strings and then the craziness that ensues. Oh also the music, it puts you immediatly on edge the moment you cross the threshold onto the arena and keeps you in the fight as it ramps up.
Other than that? I have a soft-spot for Scrapped Watchman. His presentation is decent but nothing to write home about. It’s still the early game and we’re still ramping up. But this fight made me fall in love with this game: standing in front of a giant boss and just taking his attacks. He has long attack chains that are easy to completly deflect, delayed attacks that are slightly harder to deflect, which also force you to move in phase 2, Fatal Attacks which give you a big attack window when you successfully defelct them. Oh, and he has a grab attack that’s not bullshit, this should immediately disqualify him from being a Souls Boss XD. I know he is just a trainings boss and the stuff he teaches is there more extreme in other bosses, but dammit he’s a very good training boss. I fought him in the boss rematch feature at difficulty 3 where he has a lot more health, and yes I’m enjoing his fight even more when he can actually take abuse.
Sorry for the long ramble :)
Also I thought Lemmy has numbered markdown lists; hmm it does according the docs, but I only get unnumbered lists.
Thanks for the juicy answers! and please don’t apologize, I like your observations and insight. this is exactly what I wanted :)
Now, brace yourself for the imcoming infodump on the homage thing. This is what I got in regards to these particular bosses references/inpirations:
Nameless Puppet
As I see it, Nameless Puppet strongly parallels Lady Maria. For starters, he is an undead corpse (one that should’ve been left well alone) he’s also part “doll” (well, puppet).
-Both Carlo (after dying) and Maria were respectively the subject of Geppetto’s and Gherman’s fixation. (Both skilled weapon craftsmen and leaders of a workshop)This resulted in the creation of another being (P/ the Doll) made in their image, that despite being inorganic, is alive and connected to the “original one”, through latent memories / other metaphisycal way.
-NP wields a weapon that transforms simmilarly to Maria’s Rakuyo, and his moveset takes a lot from hers as well, but is cranked up to 11: ,They share the spining slashes, their attacks have extended reach on phase two, both do a delayed stab, go up in the air and strike down, etc etc… (Plus both fights use lots and lots of red vfx :V) I do see Artorias as inspo as well, now that you mention it.
-And (This one is a reach, but indulge me for a moment) Thematically P breaking his bond with Gepetto in the events that trigger the fight, (and later cutting NP strings as well) could somewhat echo a broken bond between Maria and Gherman (a possible father figure to her) after the events in the fishing hamlet.
Feel free to tell me if I’m tripping balls with this.
Simon Manus
Simon is more on the nose, as the reference is in the name. I played Lies of P and DS1 simultaneously; I did Simon Manus first, and later Manus, father of the abyss, And then I went: Ooooh…
-Both started as human (but not regular humans) and got corrupted and transformed into something beyond.
-Design wise Simon phase 2 borrows the Big Hand TM and horn-like growths, DS Manus wields a big magic catalyst and Simon his ergo imbued mace.
-Moveset wise they both spin, do weapon sweeps, hand smacks/slams and take big leaps in the air,; they cast magical orbs in phase 2 that close in on the player.
-After defeating Simon, P goes down the elevator and meets his father in a location called “under the abyss.”
Doing OG Manus actually elevated Simon’s fight for me.
I think in these fights illustrate how the FS references were cleverly and seamlessly incorporated through out the game, and I greatly enjoyed catching these and othrr details.
Do try the promo weapon, it’s seriously broken and fun!
Simon >Manus<, whose above the Abyss… Okay, super obvious when you put it like that. I totally missed that. Viewing the fight through that lense reveals all the other details you listed.
Yeah, I can definitely see Maria in the Namless Puppet fight: The Scissor weapon and the Rakuyo, both splitting in Phase 2. Also in Phase 2 the red glow around the weapon. Also, yeah, some of the acrobatics are kinda reminisced of her.
If those two thematically fit together… I don’t know. I need think more deeply on the story of Lies of P after the DLC anyway. You can definitely make them fit together with the puppet parallels, but I don’t know if this actually meant to appear that way.
One quick tought: Maria’s has agency still in protecting the secrets. Nameless Puppet only ever had, if it had agency at all, hatred as it’s driving force at least according to an item description (I think the boss amulet). So I think you can make the story connections around the characters, but not between those two characters specifically. Maybe, I don’t, I need to think about more.
Anyway, thanks for the story insights and this Lies of P disussion as a whole :)
The similarities seem beyond coincidental to me, but I agree.in that it’s probably not meant to be read as other than a collection of inspiration and references, similar to Simon hence: an homage.
You have a point (and I did purposely omit a tie to the angency issue) but, yeah I said strongly parallels which, may have been over selling it a bit . XD Chalk it up to my enthusiasm of actually getting to talk about any of this!!
Have a great week!