Its definitely not always the mans fault but we would do well to understand that men don’t have the same needs when it comes to maintaining a long term sexual relationship.
Women generally need to feel a sense of emotional security, trust and connection for a long term relationship to thrive, especially in the bedroom. Men would like this too, but they don’t necessarily need it to continue a sexual relationship.
Unfortunately in many (perhaps most) relationships women do feel that a disproportionate share of household and childcare duties fall on them, which erodes at those core foundations of a healthy long term relationship.
Is it all on men to work this out? No. But if they want to take an active approach to maintaining the health of their relationship, meeting their partners emotional needs has the highest likelihood is doing that and keeping the bedroom alive.
Women like to be physically intimate when they feel safe, understood and appreciated. Men should ask for the same in their partners even if we’re conditioned not to ‘need’ all of that in the same way.
I think your point about differing needs is really the core of all of the friction. At least when we’re not talking about the worthless kind of husband demanding shit and not actually being present etc.
I can only speak for myself, but the presence or lack of physical intimacy has a massive effect on whether or not I feel: valued, appreciated, or desired in a relationship. Lack makes me start thinking things like “Am I your partner, or just the providertm? Do you actually want me around when I’m not providing value, doing things for you? Is this a job or a relationship? Are you no longer attracted to me? Do you even really want to be near me, spend time with me?”
And note I keep using the phrase “physical intimacy”. I’m not a prude, if I meant sex I’d say it directly. That’s part, but not all of it.
When we potato on the couch, has it literally been months since my partner sat next to or leaned on me? Are they literally sitting on the opposite side, as far as they can possibly get away? Ok, is it a “I don’t feel safe” thing? No, they’ll sit with me when I ask, or when I go to them, but never of their own accord.
Stuff like that builds up over time, and personally, when I talk about stuff like this I’m talking patterns of behaviour over years, not “wah wah I couldn’t get the nookie when she was trying to figure out how to get a newborn to sleep through the night”.
So it’s infuriating when the horde comes out to insist the only reason there could possibly be problems is if the guy is a shitpile, and that there’s always layers upon layers for why it’s never okay for a man to feel anything about a lack of physical intimacy. For fucks sake I do my part, I do everything I can to meet her emotional and other needs. Am I not allowed to feel like I’m being treated as a roommate rather than a partner? Am I not allowed to feel like I’m not desired? What about my own emotional needs? No, because so many shitpile men exist I guess.
I get where you’re coming from and I’ve personally gone through many of the feelings you’re describing. As men we sometimes feel that (physical) intimacy is how our partners communicate to us our ‘value’ in a way. Some of that is toxic cultural norms but there is also just fundamental differences in how intimacy is perceived between men and women in long term relationships.
As you’ve aptly stated, the difference is men often feel that intimacy is part of how they are made to feel appreciated and valued while, in my experience, women need to feel validated, appreciated and valued emotionally as the soil in which a persistent desire for physical intimacy grows.
I am by no means diminishing the experience of men or trying to say its all on them. I have literally posed the questions that youve asked in past relationships and while they understood where I was coming from it never fixed the rift. Only after I took the initiave to take interest in and prioritize their emotional security and trust in me did the dynamic change from a diminishing interest in intimacy and rare or less frequent initiation to the opposite of that.
I’m just speaking on my own experience, particularly regarding long term relationships. Hopefully it’s helpful to someone out there.
I wish I could be that picky lol, if I had to feel safe, understood, and appreciated I’d still be a virgin lmao. If I ever told a woman “no I want to feel safe, understood, and appreciated” I’d be called an incel. At best she’d get the ick and ghost me, at the most generous interpretation because “if I need that from her how am I going to provide it to her” (but I honestly think it’s because desiring “safety and understanding” isn’t “manly” and “appreciation” “what do you mean…patriarchy…women are the ones who aren’t appreciated…yadda yadda.” Sort of the same deal as the classic “I want a sensitive man who cries” and then the second you do she loses any semblance of respect for you as a person.)
I hear what you’re saying but I’d say that not all women are like that and these conversations are really meant for someone you’re prepared to have a deep commitment with, not necessarily early on in a relationship. There are a ton of toxic attachment patterns and cultural norms in our society that are challenging to navigate but these tend to matter less as a relationship evolves into a long term one.
Women aren’t capable of caring for and making their partners safe and appreciated??
Says the one assuming all intimacy issues are caused by male failure lmao. Wow your ass on outta here with that shit, “generalizations for me but not for thee.” What’s the line again, “If it doesn’t apply to you I wasn’t talking about you?”
The assumption in here is that all intimacy issues are caused by women refusing to give sex to men.
Almost like giving birth and raising a baby is an all-hands-on-deck situation and sex isn’t as much of an immediate need like sleep and eating and surviving are during that time.
Your assumption maybe, but the meme is lambasting men who complain about lack of sex from their wife when in reality their failure to help parenting is the cause, that’s not “assuming all intimacy issues are caused by women refusing to give sex to men,” it’s actually closer to the opposite (though the meme doesn’t say all either, it implies that it at least happens sometimes but not all.)
Many other commenters have also noted that not all physical intimacy is sex, it can be as simple as cuddling up on the couch vs sitting on the opposite side as far away as one can (literally an example pulled from another comment in this thread), and noted that it isn’t just “when baby” it can be a years long pattern even if you do everything right and have nothing to do with babby at all. One commenter even noted that it wasn’t her husband’s fault and he did his job but breastfeeding itself affected her libido. You are the one in here refusing to accept that anything beyond your preconceived notions could possibly be true, and that is why you’re being “mass downvoted,” not because of whatever victim fantasy you’ve concocted in your mind. I hope you get the help you need.
Its definitely not always the mans fault but we would do well to understand that men don’t have the same needs when it comes to maintaining a long term sexual relationship.
Women generally need to feel a sense of emotional security, trust and connection for a long term relationship to thrive, especially in the bedroom. Men would like this too, but they don’t necessarily need it to continue a sexual relationship.
Unfortunately in many (perhaps most) relationships women do feel that a disproportionate share of household and childcare duties fall on them, which erodes at those core foundations of a healthy long term relationship.
Is it all on men to work this out? No. But if they want to take an active approach to maintaining the health of their relationship, meeting their partners emotional needs has the highest likelihood is doing that and keeping the bedroom alive.
Women like to be physically intimate when they feel safe, understood and appreciated. Men should ask for the same in their partners even if we’re conditioned not to ‘need’ all of that in the same way.
I think your point about differing needs is really the core of all of the friction. At least when we’re not talking about the worthless kind of husband demanding shit and not actually being present etc.
I can only speak for myself, but the presence or lack of physical intimacy has a massive effect on whether or not I feel: valued, appreciated, or desired in a relationship. Lack makes me start thinking things like “Am I your partner, or just the providertm? Do you actually want me around when I’m not providing value, doing things for you? Is this a job or a relationship? Are you no longer attracted to me? Do you even really want to be near me, spend time with me?”
And note I keep using the phrase “physical intimacy”. I’m not a prude, if I meant sex I’d say it directly. That’s part, but not all of it.
When we potato on the couch, has it literally been months since my partner sat next to or leaned on me? Are they literally sitting on the opposite side, as far as they can possibly get away? Ok, is it a “I don’t feel safe” thing? No, they’ll sit with me when I ask, or when I go to them, but never of their own accord.
Stuff like that builds up over time, and personally, when I talk about stuff like this I’m talking patterns of behaviour over years, not “wah wah I couldn’t get the nookie when she was trying to figure out how to get a newborn to sleep through the night”.
So it’s infuriating when the horde comes out to insist the only reason there could possibly be problems is if the guy is a shitpile, and that there’s always layers upon layers for why it’s never okay for a man to feel anything about a lack of physical intimacy. For fucks sake I do my part, I do everything I can to meet her emotional and other needs. Am I not allowed to feel like I’m being treated as a roommate rather than a partner? Am I not allowed to feel like I’m not desired? What about my own emotional needs? No, because so many shitpile men exist I guess.
I get where you’re coming from and I’ve personally gone through many of the feelings you’re describing. As men we sometimes feel that (physical) intimacy is how our partners communicate to us our ‘value’ in a way. Some of that is toxic cultural norms but there is also just fundamental differences in how intimacy is perceived between men and women in long term relationships.
As you’ve aptly stated, the difference is men often feel that intimacy is part of how they are made to feel appreciated and valued while, in my experience, women need to feel validated, appreciated and valued emotionally as the soil in which a persistent desire for physical intimacy grows.
I am by no means diminishing the experience of men or trying to say its all on them. I have literally posed the questions that youve asked in past relationships and while they understood where I was coming from it never fixed the rift. Only after I took the initiave to take interest in and prioritize their emotional security and trust in me did the dynamic change from a diminishing interest in intimacy and rare or less frequent initiation to the opposite of that.
I’m just speaking on my own experience, particularly regarding long term relationships. Hopefully it’s helpful to someone out there.
I wish I could be that picky lol, if I had to feel safe, understood, and appreciated I’d still be a virgin lmao. If I ever told a woman “no I want to feel safe, understood, and appreciated” I’d be called an incel. At best she’d get the ick and ghost me, at the most generous interpretation because “if I need that from her how am I going to provide it to her” (but I honestly think it’s because desiring “safety and understanding” isn’t “manly” and “appreciation” “what do you mean…patriarchy…women are the ones who aren’t appreciated…yadda yadda.” Sort of the same deal as the classic “I want a sensitive man who cries” and then the second you do she loses any semblance of respect for you as a person.)
I hear what you’re saying but I’d say that not all women are like that and these conversations are really meant for someone you’re prepared to have a deep commitment with, not necessarily early on in a relationship. There are a ton of toxic attachment patterns and cultural norms in our society that are challenging to navigate but these tend to matter less as a relationship evolves into a long term one.
Holy shit, you all were crying and downvoting en masse because “we are treating all men the same”.
What the fuck is this?
Women aren’t capable of caring for and making their partners safe and appreciated??
Wow. Wow wow wow.
Says the one assuming all intimacy issues are caused by male failure lmao. Wow your ass on outta here with that shit, “generalizations for me but not for thee.” What’s the line again, “If it doesn’t apply to you I wasn’t talking about you?”
The assumption in here is that all intimacy issues are caused by women refusing to give sex to men.
Almost like giving birth and raising a baby is an all-hands-on-deck situation and sex isn’t as much of an immediate need like sleep and eating and surviving are during that time.
Your assumption maybe, but the meme is lambasting men who complain about lack of sex from their wife when in reality their failure to help parenting is the cause, that’s not “assuming all intimacy issues are caused by women refusing to give sex to men,” it’s actually closer to the opposite (though the meme doesn’t say all either, it implies that it at least happens sometimes but not all.)
Many other commenters have also noted that not all physical intimacy is sex, it can be as simple as cuddling up on the couch vs sitting on the opposite side as far away as one can (literally an example pulled from another comment in this thread), and noted that it isn’t just “when baby” it can be a years long pattern even if you do everything right and have nothing to do with babby at all. One commenter even noted that it wasn’t her husband’s fault and he did his job but breastfeeding itself affected her libido. You are the one in here refusing to accept that anything beyond your preconceived notions could possibly be true, and that is why you’re being “mass downvoted,” not because of whatever victim fantasy you’ve concocted in your mind. I hope you get the help you need.
It’s not his job to take care of the baby so that he can get sex.
It’s his job to take care of the baby because he is a father. It’s entirely independent of his relationship with his wife and his sex life.