The cabal has gone “yeah fuck this” and succumbed to exhaustion https://awful.systems/post/8294148
Everyone involved is a goober.
My god, I just saw he kept this truck running on Mastodon too.
There is “doubling down” and then there’s… whatever this lunacy is.
and came by with a hachyderm account to post on the defed notice
Misinformation misinformation! I did not punch Jeremy! I was merely extending my arm fast and then my glove punched Jeremy. Stop saying I punched Jeremy!!
believe it or not we’ve read the posts and context in question and come to the conclusion that the use of LLMs for summarizing posts and confirming a moderation decision still obviously fucking sucks and obviously represents algorithmic bias in a way we don’t want on any instance we federate with
I know you kids won’t read this but uhhh if you come at us with an attack on our ability to read, all that’s going to happen is I’m going to tell you to fuck yourself before I ban you
ok, wtf did I just wake up to
Lol, yeah, didnt check awful for a day and this escalated. Well done on all the mods for keeping us informed what is going on btw.
What a great example of how not to react when caught in a controversy by the db0 crew.
evergreen post
And I get to use it twice, because I took a nap.
we apologise for the world
sorry blake 🥺
What about Stacey?
> Fediverse drama involving db0
> Looks inside
> UnruffledNaturally
no it’s fine you see, they fed the posts in question to a homegrown open source LLM (still trained on plagiarized sources by a gigantic corporation as part of an extremely obvious market domination plan) and only pretended to feed a ton of posts to chatgpt as a joke that nobody laughed at
moderator’s note to anyone who came here to make the above point in earnest: lol
Extremely unsound reasons, such as finding users years long history of vile genocide downplaying and denying comments and pro Zionism?
Even PieFed.social banned the user who the AI found this out about. So it was obviously useful for them as well.
fuck off with this equivocating shit
piefed banned the user by, uhhhh, reading their posts like a fucking normal person
did you know you can just use mk.i wetware eyeballs to read dipshits’ posting histories? revelatory, I know!
and did you just roll into awful trying to pretend that it’s a place that is favourable to nazis, genocidists, and other shitbags? or to imply that I am? seriously? because I’m pretty sure I’ve seen you post here before…
maybe you should stop making shit up in your head and acting like someone else said it
You should follow the comments in those links showing that this is deliberate disinfo.
Here’s existing discussions: https://piefed.social/c/fediverse/p/2032935/ai-assisted-moderation-in-the-fediverse-is-happening-now-what
From the horse’s mouth: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/25880065
amazingly, I did actually click on those posts! and those posts did inform me that this is happening!
what part of the information do you consider wrong? where’s the code? I’ll go read and see where it disagrees
Oh you did read them? How did you miss the part where we pointed out that everything Rimu said was misleading and we don’t actually moderate with LLMs?
did you read my post and see the bit where I don’t make any moderation claims? where’s the code?
The code of what? The script that uses the lemmy API to download the public post history of a user?
did you read my post and see the bit where I don’t make any moderation claims
You linked to disinfo and them claimed we"feed posts wholesale to prompts". You know the implication you were trying to make, and as it’s clear from the comments from others here that it’s working.
are you being intentionally obtuse? the code to do everything involved with this issue. the code that would be a very simple demonstrative “oh, okay, so that’s what’s happening” read with literally no ambiguity, as is extremely usual to do in open source. that code. where is it?
This is an internal tool that a mod developed and an admin was trying out. You realize that at this point I could just post any fucking code I want to prove whatever I want, right? So you understand this doesn’t prove anything? So why not just believe me when I tell you that all the script was doing was downloading a user’s public post history via the API?
I anyway asked the developer to share the code with me, as again, it wasn’t an official instance tooling.
The code was used to pull a users comment history into a text file, which was then used to ban the user, right? Leaving the fact that it was then fed into an LLM that may or may not have been self hosted based on “jokes” aside, how is code used in an official instance action like moderation not “official instance” tooling?
Do you post a public log of all your “official instance tooling?” How often, and in want instances, has “unofficial instance tooling” been used to do official instance actions like banning users?
then my take/read is that your team simply sucks at this
your posts across various threads about this for DAYS are all running interference, and you could simply have skipped past that by going “look, here’s what ran, here’s the logs”
and as I said in my other comment on the other branch: running around shouting like you are isn’t a great look
why are you going to bat for someone using unofficial tooling that proved to be extremely unpopular because it was used in a manner that looked like abuse to most observers and qualifies as abuse for instances like ours? it feels kind of rich to come here angry when other people are asking you to stop. maybe you can just take our word for it that we don’t want an LLM anywhere in the moderation process, even as a post summarizer? you don’t have to understand why if you don’t want to.
and yeah you absolutely can lie about this crap. it kind of makes it worse that you and your mod felt they didn’t have to. we really don’t want any of this normalized on any level.
you thought I’d be ok with this shit because it was done with an allegedly open source model? I’m so glad you ignored all our posts about unchecked algorithmic bias and the fucking rotten origins of every open source model (hint: you don’t have the resources to train a model because you aren’t a billion-dollar company and that’s by design) because moderating your instances appropriately was ooh just too haard
my guy what in the fuck are we doing here? more to the point what are you doing here?
You’d think you’d be able to see the posts I linked and realize we didn’t actually moderate our instances with LLMs?
Finally, just because I included an LLM summary of the comment history in the public modlog, it does not logically follow that the ban occurred because of the LLM summary. It simply happened to correspond very well to my own manual review
yeah, it’s ok because the LLM wasn’t hooked up directly to the ban API, you just used it systemically to not do the only fucking thing you’re supposed to be doing as a moderator
this human in loop shit is how corporations absolve themselves of responsibility for decisions taken purely on the word of an LLM. it lets them fire a worker instead of an executive. you’re sure this is the route you want to go?
yeah, it’s ok because the LLM wasn’t hooked up directly to the ban API, you just used it systemically to not do the only fucking thing you’re supposed to be doing as a moderator
Can you fucking read? What “systematically” are you talking about? How did we use it " only fucking thing you’re supposed to be doing as a moderator"? Is summarizing “the thing you’re supposed to be doing as a moderator”? Is doing a summary once “systematically”? Why are you continuing to spread disinfo?
Once again. The admin in question DID NOT USE THE LLM TO DECIDE ON THE ADMIN ACTION. Can you understand this? Can you read this? Am I talking to a wall?! You are swallowing disinfo and then spitting your outrage mindlessly on people.
Once again. The admin in question DID NOT USE THE LLM TO DECIDE ON THE ADMIN ACTION. Can you understand this? Can you read this?
Literally no one believes this corpo speak bullshit. That they just coincidentally ran this unpublished python tool, did their own work, then just happened to use an LLM to do the exact same work right after, totally innocently? That reads as absolute ass covering and nothing more. This is the “I smelled weed” of cop stops, just filtered through nerdy fediverse bullshit.
Then, because the above totally happened like you said it did, as a one off joke that no one would ever notice, the same admin opted to put a current OpenAI model name in the LLM field in an absolutely not tongue in cheek way for other admins to totally catch and joke about? Which of course happened, haha, y’all had a big laugh about it before this blew up, yeah?
Oh, and of course this only happened the one time, and never again. Of course no one on your team used this unpublished time saving and thought terminating tool again, of course not.
Come the fuck on.
Its very clear what happened. Your mod/admin wrote a python script that pulls user comment history via the Lemmy api, pipes it to openai to “analyze it,” then banned the user when it came back with the answer they wanted to hear, and thats being charitable that they kept a human in the loop. Its fully possible the script auto banned the user and made the modlog comment directly. It was most likely used once because they bragged about their AI ban tool on the “we love AI” lemmy instance, and y’all freaked out on them because you understand optics at a minimal level. Any future use was hidden or, best case, kiboshed.
With no evidence to the contrary past “trust me bro,” the above hits Occam razors much more consistently than your myriad excuses and evasive answers. Show us this script, show us logging from this qwen instance. Until then, its clear you’re in full on PR mode because your admin team did exactly what you claim they didn’t.
Nothing has changed in that respect, except now we have an extra tool to make sure we get the decision correct.
And I thought the summary did a much more comprehensive justification of the ban than I could have fitted in the modlog, so why not include it?
idk maybe because it’s unnecessary to do that in the first place, and can be filled with nonsense from nonsense generator https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/25880065 emphasis mine
and previously, https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/67894781/25769171
unless i’m to disbelieve my lying eyes, that does sound awfully like llms are in the decision making process
no but you’re about to be talking to a defed unless you stop this all caps fake outrage shit. should I do you the favor of deleting the garbage post you just made so you can give it another go?
think very carefully on this because I’m not sure pretending to not understand what I’m asking is working out for you
assume I know and understand that the LLM did not literally do the banning
maybe there’s a large body of existing research on how even human in the loop systems confirm and worsen biases? maybe it’s a bit obvious when you go through the process the moderator took to get to their decisions in your head? slowly now, maybe you’ll get there
this human in loop shit is how corporations absolve themselves of responsibility for decisions taken purely on the word of an LLM. it lets them fire a worker instead of an executive. you’re sure this is the route you want to go?
I completely agree with you. We have never and will never go that route.
Here’s the answer to the only question you posted which should be obvious from everything else I’ve said and done.
lol, lmao even
you do realize all this comes across as running interference while feeling real guilty? you could just, like, drop a link to a repo with the bits. you know, with commit history. like i’ve been asking you for. just simply linking to that would be a real quick way to settle the issue! it’s even some free code review for you!
You realize there might not be a repo, right?
you realize that mod probably shouldn’t be one, right?
