YouTube came like 10 years after people started doing webcasts. Also, webcasts came before this episode aired I am pretty sure.
All Neelix ever wanted was to spread joy and happiness to the people he loved.
Three year olds dude.
This is racist against Ocampa. Ocampa are not children. They simply live shorter lives than other species and mature faster. Don’t assume your species’ rules apply to them. Before the “Caretaker” ruined their world, they had as advanced and independent a civilization as any other in the galaxy. But because of their short lifespans, they have to constantly battle against the infantilizing prejudice of other species. Their brains simply grow and mature faster. They absorb and process information faster. They develop wisdom faster. An Ocampa at 3 is equivalent to a human at 30. Do not assume the norms of your species apply to all other species.
Imagine what navigating such prejudice would be like! Imagine if you, a human, were forced by circumstance to live among a species that on average lived to be a thousand. Imagine how it would feel to have your opinions and input constantly dismissed as childish, for literally your entire lifespan, simply because those of the slow-maturing species thought of you as a child! Imagine if anyone even having a relationship with you was social suicide because you, a fully mature and independent adult of your species, simply had a faster-maturing biology than the aliens you’re living among. Imagine being condemned to a life of loneliness simply because those around you can’t see past their prejudice and the assumptions based on their biology, not yours. Imagine being 30, dating someone of analogous age to you (perhaps 300), and having to defend your partner against constant charges of pedophilia. Imagine having your defense of your partner dismissed because, “I’m sorry, but you’re just not mature enough to have opinions on such things.”
Ocampa past the Ocampan age of majority have a right to consensual activity with whomever they please! They’re full adults, and we should not let our bias as a slow-maturing species cloud our interactions with them. Some part of me thinks you’re just jealous that most Ocampa at three are more intelligent and mature than most humans at 30.
This is disgusting anti-Ocampan bigotry. In many ways it reminds me of the fight that disabled people have had to fight to have their right to consent to sexual activity be recognized and respected.
And paradoxically, your approach actually leads to real pedophilia. Think about what happens if you apply the human “18 and up rule” to all species. Consider that slow-maturing species mentioned earlier. Their 18 might be like the human 2. They could be 18 years old but resemble a human two year old in both mental and physical development. But your rule would conclude it’s perfectly fine for a human adult to have intercourse with such a person.
Ages of majority are a function of species. Species reach adulthood at different rates. When judging the acceptability of inter-species relationships, what matters is that both consenting parties are legal adults of their respective species. The actual age is just a number. Do not assume human rules apply outside humanity. Your way is not the only way.
Now do the difference between epepefebolia and hebepepelia
Again, you’re mapping your human stereotypes onto other species. Thankfully, in the future of Star Trek, people have gotten past such closed-minded thinking.
I’d try but what the hell are those words?
Just put them into a search engine with spell checking.
Government tracking search engine perfect place for controversial words. Put misspellt controversial words on surveillance system. Surveillance system secret to everyone, put secrets in. A perfect place for controversial things, webform good for support misspellt controversial words.
neelix is prime example of creepy groomer, he took barely mature individual who lacked the skills to deal with the world (such as being predated by an elderly creep) because she has so far been living in a closed vault society, so she had very little chance to acquire them. she is, developmentally, a naive teenager at best, no matter the biological age. he takes her away from her people, tries to isolate her, control and gaslight her, “sweetie” her into whatever he wants her to do… the power imbalance of “okey, i saved you and now you belong to me” is terrible. the age difference between ethan phillips (*1955) and jeniffer lien (*1974) certainly did not help.
the sheer number of paragraphs you devoted to defending that, while pretending it is some scientific analysis, is in itself disturbing.
deleted by creator
Honestly, it’s a perfectly reasonable discussion to have. In a universe like Star Trek, species of radically different lifespans and maturation rates will have had to find ways to navigate inter-species social interaction. And if the species are close enough to be physically attractive to one another, navigating ages of consent would be a major part of this process. This isn’t trying to justify human pedophilia. Obviously within one species adults should not have relations with children. The problem is that species will blindly apply their own numbers to other species and assume their own standards apply.
I forgive you for lashing out. I understand that deeply reflecting on your preconceived notions and assumptions of the universe is difficult. Overcoming bigotry can be hard and painful work. But try to be more polite.
Real talk below:
Obviously I’m being facetious when talking about a fictional species, but this does have real overlap even with real-world human relations. Some people have medical conditions that pause their physical maturation. They end up looking like children forever. And those folks face a hard time forming relationships, as even partners willing to look past their appearance face constant accusations of pedophilia. This attitude of “shut up, the whole topic is verbotten, any discussion of any topic relating to age of consent means you’re a pedophile” is childish and harms real-world people. I’m not here trying to argue that pedophilia is in any way OK. I’m not trying to argue that any relationship between a human an adult and a human child is OK. I am pointing out that our knee-jerk reaction to the topic results in harming actual adults fully capable of consenting to sexual activity. We’re so conditioned to react with white-hot rage to the topic that we end up branding relationships between adults as pedophilia. Relationships involving anyone that society infantilizes end up being judged as pedophilia.
This is a board related to Star Trek, and Star Trek has a long tradition of exploring real-world issues through science fiction allegory. In many ways the Ocampa are analogous to real human beings with certain disabilities. There are many who doubt that disabled people are fully capable of consenting to intercourse, and not just in the extreme case of an adult looking like a child. Disabled people have had to fight for generations for their right to be seen as fully independent adults capable of making their own choices. Disabled people have had to fight against the very infantilization that the Ocampa experience in Voyager. The partners of disabled people often face accusations of something akin to pedophilia. The Ocampa are a metaphor for any group of real-world human adults that broader society deems unworthy of making their own choices and living independently. The partners of disabled people are often judged just like Neelix is being judged in this thread.
I don’t feel it’s at all inappropriate to talk about this on a Star Trek board. “Both of you shut up” has very similar vibes to the lament of “I hate that Star Trek got woke.” It ignores that Star Trek, like all good science fiction, uses metaphor to critique real human society. And the Ocampa are no different. The Ocampa are a metaphor for any marginalized group in society that the rest of society doesn’t quite consider full and capable adults.
The fun thing for me is to actually think of what the Vulcan reaction is to one of their own dating a human. “Sarek, you’re 300 years old man. Why are you going out with that illogical human female? She’s 10% your age.”
Obviously you’re not a golfer
