I vote for leftist candidates on my local level and I vote for whichever option is more interested in preventing ecocide federally.
IMO there are certain special cases where one can accurately judge that voting in a local election will prevent or guarantee a specific event, e.g. voting in a politician who promises not to do a specific thing (but even then, no guarantees because politicians are lying scum…). The logic here is that the social network is small enough that you personally know or are not very far separated from all parties in the situation.
I would like it if the next generations have a world to inherit, and there is a tangible difference between the two major parties federally. I’ll vote for the neoliberal that kills the planet slower, because the revolution isn’t happening this election cycle, or likely for a long time.
My argument is that neither of these is possible through voting. There is no tangible difference between the two parties from an anti-capitalist perspective other than their marketing. And the neoliberals are united in all the ways that count.
I take direct action in my community
Excellent!
and I use my vote in hopes of not killing the planet for shareholder value.
Personally, I think the miniscule time spent voting would be better used for rest and enjoying your life.
In general, I’m willing to agree to disagree with comrades on the voting issue…but emphasis on disagree.
I really don’t understand how you see no difference between the parties from an anti-capitalist view. If all you’re concerned about is the economic system, I guess that’s true, but one party is doing its best to burn the world down while the other is not doing that, or even investing more effort towards renewables. An anti-capitalist society can’t exist without the planet surviving. My vote is valuable as a vote against the people that want to add more and more fossil fuel plants and decrease environmental protections. I am a leftist, and for me that is inseperable from my identity as an environmental activist. I don’t vote for blue fascists instead of red fascists because I think they’re less fascist, but because they’re at least not activity speeding up the demise of the planet. I want a world without capital, borders, or state, but for that to happen, humanity needs to exist.
If all you’re concerned about is the economic system…
I am a leftist, and for me that is inseperable from my identity as an environmental activist.
I…think you’re misreading me as a class reductionist? I’m not at all implying that the things you’re trying to protect with your vote are unimportant. Exactly the opposite: these things are so important that we cannot afford to waste time interacting with the liberals’ vile dictatorship on its own terms to solve these problems.
I guess that’s true, but one party is doing its best to burn the world down while the other is not doing that, or even investing more effort towards renewables.
That’s exactly my point: are you sure the other party is investing more effort towards renewables? Because I can’t give out too many details without doxxing myself, but I was actually in the room for one of the meetings between the local regulatory agency, government, and academia over renewables. While the Dems in my state are not completely caving…they very much still are capitulating, and their answer for the foreseeable future is basically gonna be “build nuclear because we’re too scared to continue our wind projects”, almost indistinguishable from what Republicans want to do modulo marketing.
Really, in most issues, the two parties are basically like this. They hem and haw about how different they are, and obviously I “vibe” more closely with the Dems’ marketing because I am a feminist and LGBTQIA ally and neurodivergent and I want to be inclusive and included…but as bitter of a pill as it is to swallow, ultimately the two parties do basically the same shit in the shadows, basically whatever is worst for the proletariat and whatever reinforces existing hierarchies most effectively.
I want a world without capital, borders, or state, but for that to happen, humanity needs to exist.
Me too and I respect your logic…but I don’t agree with the premise that the proletariat actually can change the trajectory of the system by changing the party of the figurehead. The State is uncontrollable from our perspective by design.
IMO there are certain special cases where one can accurately judge that voting in a local election will prevent or guarantee a specific event, e.g. voting in a politician who promises not to do a specific thing (but even then, no guarantees because politicians are lying scum…). The logic here is that the social network is small enough that you personally know or are not very far separated from all parties in the situation.
My argument is that neither of these is possible through voting. There is no tangible difference between the two parties from an anti-capitalist perspective other than their marketing. And the neoliberals are united in all the ways that count.
Excellent!
Personally, I think the miniscule time spent voting would be better used for rest and enjoying your life.
In general, I’m willing to agree to disagree with comrades on the voting issue…but emphasis on disagree.
I really don’t understand how you see no difference between the parties from an anti-capitalist view. If all you’re concerned about is the economic system, I guess that’s true, but one party is doing its best to burn the world down while the other is not doing that, or even investing more effort towards renewables. An anti-capitalist society can’t exist without the planet surviving. My vote is valuable as a vote against the people that want to add more and more fossil fuel plants and decrease environmental protections. I am a leftist, and for me that is inseperable from my identity as an environmental activist. I don’t vote for blue fascists instead of red fascists because I think they’re less fascist, but because they’re at least not activity speeding up the demise of the planet. I want a world without capital, borders, or state, but for that to happen, humanity needs to exist.
I…think you’re misreading me as a class reductionist? I’m not at all implying that the things you’re trying to protect with your vote are unimportant. Exactly the opposite: these things are so important that we cannot afford to waste time interacting with the liberals’ vile dictatorship on its own terms to solve these problems.
That’s exactly my point: are you sure the other party is investing more effort towards renewables? Because I can’t give out too many details without doxxing myself, but I was actually in the room for one of the meetings between the local regulatory agency, government, and academia over renewables. While the Dems in my state are not completely caving…they very much still are capitulating, and their answer for the foreseeable future is basically gonna be “build nuclear because we’re too scared to continue our wind projects”, almost indistinguishable from what Republicans want to do modulo marketing.
Really, in most issues, the two parties are basically like this. They hem and haw about how different they are, and obviously I “vibe” more closely with the Dems’ marketing because I am a feminist and LGBTQIA ally and neurodivergent and I want to be inclusive and included…but as bitter of a pill as it is to swallow, ultimately the two parties do basically the same shit in the shadows, basically whatever is worst for the proletariat and whatever reinforces existing hierarchies most effectively.
Me too and I respect your logic…but I don’t agree with the premise that the proletariat actually can change the trajectory of the system by changing the party of the figurehead. The State is uncontrollable from our perspective by design.