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Growing your own food is fun and awesome. But to sustain the society and eliminate scarcity agriculture has to be done at scale. Why do people want to retvrn to subsistence farming?
because anarchists are just a left wing version of libertarians
Yes. Their struggle is of the abstract ‘freedom’ , of the state and government- not class. When the chips fall, it always comes to this idea of the government and authoritarianism rather than class and the relations to the means of production. I always notice they have no qualm about shedding the class kernel within their ideology.
exactly, anarchism is an ideology that’s rooted in liberalism and individualist thinking
Hippies 2.0
I recall there was a good doc on how the CIA fueled the hippie movement to redirect energy from class consciousness.
If you ever remember what it was I’d like to show it to my ex-hippie parents like you house train a puppy.
Oh don’t recall what it was called anymore, it’s been a few years. If it comes to me, I’ll ping here.
💚
my ideal anarchist society is being the horse raiders
Prolife level bait. Capitalists don’t need help defending their unjust hierarchy.
We tend to be marxist-leninists here. In history, successful ML-led revolutions are some of the most substantive opposition to capitalism there is.
The issue with anarchists is not that they oppose capitalism; it’s that they sometimes try to pose themselves as an alternative to a socialist vanguard state, as uniquely freedom in a way that it isn’t, and then their solutions have a tendency to amount to “communism but we ignore the need for large-scale, centralized logistical planning, production, and distribution in a modern industrial context.” In other words, they tend to want communism faster than it can realistically be brought about for the modern age and they tend to be allergic to militant central planning, which bites them in the ass when the reaction / counterrevolutionary forces easily pick them off in their isolated position.
Is it lost on you that the meme rhymes or is parallel with memes from reactionary conservatives or do you just disagree? To me it looks like when the news focused on the little damage during BLM in order to claim complete wreckage.
Ignorant memeing ain’t praxis or revolution. Anarchism and communism (even from ML roots) aren’t incompatible. I guess I shouldn’t expect cowbee grade responses from everyone or that humans could ever stop themselves from acting human.
While I do support Marxists and anarchists working together against imperialism and capitalism, communism and anarchism are not compatible. Anarchism, oversimplified, presents a world of interconnected horizontalist cells, essentially a world of petty bourgeois cooperatives. Communism seeks total global collectivization across all of society, to create a classless world. The reasoning for this is that Marxists hold to dialectical materialism as our worldview and toolset for changing the world, whereas anarchists do not.
This strikes me in particular because I used to consider myself an anarchist. Part of my growth into a Marxist was simply understanding how historical materialism works, as presented by Engels in Socialism: Utopian and Scientific. I recommend giving it a read when you get the chance, and really pay attention to how Engels describes the transition to socialism and communism.
If anarchists and communists can work together politically towards goals positive for both, I argue that as a binary anarchism and communism cannot be incompatible.
Is there no human foundation shared between and no collective label that can apply to both?
It’s incredibly difficult to square anarchism’s petty bourgeois cooperative focus with communism’s analysis that the future will be collectivized. They stand at polar opposites, one where humanity is balkanized into tiny cells, and one where humanity is united.
Do you see fascism and anarchism as equally distant from communism? If not, is that distance entirely unrelated to the parts of each?
I guess if they are defined alone by what makes them unique, then rather than them being incompatible or compatible, it is more that compatibility is a category error.
I guess I’m considering the overlaps in the massive negative space for each.
There are of course overlaps, but the underlying trend is in opposition, with anarchism you have full horizontalism and decentralization, with communism you have full collectivization. This creates profound differences in where each stands that cannot be made to reconcile.
The truth is not black and white.
The most effective lies contain a kernel of truth.
Conservatives are right in recognising the flaws of liberalism (which is conservative), especially when poor rural areas (dominated by conservatives more reactionary than liberals) bear the brunt of liberal/neoliberal capitalist economic policy.
The unfortunate nature of capitalism is that the proletariat have 2 paths that lay before them.
- Descend into reactionary ideology (liberalism, fascism, etc.)
- Attain class consciousness
“it lost on you that the meme rhymes or is parallel with memes from reactionary conservatives”
So no, of course it is not lost.
Because someone that is “reactionary” or “conservative” agreeing with you does not make you wrong, to think otherwise is dogmatic and reactionary in and of itself.
The better a grasp you have on dialectics, materialism, historical materialism and the greater your class consciousness the more the above becomes apparent.
“reactionary conservatives” are very often proletarian first and conservatives second. Unless of course they are petty-bourgeois or bourgeois “reactionary conservatives”.
“To me it looks like when the news focused on the little damage during BLM in order to claim complete wreckage.”
Completely different and completely irrelevant.
"Ignorant memeing ain’t praxis or revolution. "
No one said memeing was praxis or revolution. Communists aren’t allowed to have fun?
wee woo wee woo fun police.
“Anarchism and communism (even from ML roots) aren’t incompatible.”
Yes. They most certainly are.
Anarchism stems from petty-bourgeois individualism and liberalism.
The better you understand liberalism the more this becomes apparent.
Due to Anarchism’s inherent foundation that rest upon liberal ideas such as:
- Freedom of association
- Individual freedoms/liberties being far more important than collective freedoms. (Which is ironic because true individual freedom is only obtained in the context of collective freedom through an individuals relationship with the collective)
- Decentralized competing communes (as opposed to a united collective whole).
- Liberal notions about individual/private ownership of the means of production as opposed to collective ownership
Need I say more?
Or will you actually read?
I recommend starting with Mao (as it’s easy).
Then read Lenin, starting with State and Revolution.
Then Left-Wing Communism, an Infantile Disorder.
I wish you luck, but I’m certainly not holding my breath.
You cannot help but collapse the context or at best come in running without taking a second to see if your sermon was even applicable.
The person I replied to, not you, took my critique of a meme and brought up revolution and you have inserted yourself ignorant of the context. I’m not in here smearing communism even as anarchism is being smeared.
You are so wonderfully erudite that my lumpen self cannot help but bask in your secondhand smoke.
The person I replied to, not you, took my critique of a meme and brought up revolution
Well yes, you seemed to be thinking that we’re defending capitalism here or something. Often when people come in from out of instance with a reply that seems out of left field, there is some level of ignorance of left politics going on. So I made a best guess clarification based on what I figured the confusion might be. Your response has only lost me as to what your criticism even is. I’m not sure what pointing out flaws in small scale anarchist commune thinking has to do with siding with conservatives. The other poster looks like they tried to do what I did, with making a best guess, and you seem to be annoyed that they preached at you in the process.
If people are reading you wrong, you gotta tell em how. We aren’t mind-readers and it’s almost never personal, the corrections or preaching. If it feels patronizing sometimes, I’m sorry, but people come in hot with weird shit every so often and there’s only so much one can do if the person provides little information/context for what they’re saying.
This broken ping pong chain of people is aggravating. You are mostly fine other than your assumption essay, but good lord.
The mind reading goes both ways. How am I to know that a misreading is a misreading and not bad faith? How did you connect rhyme/parallel to siding?
If not for the fact that communists in much of the world don’t have much political space below them, I’d say the meme is punching down. I can’t see that and stereotyping as anything but either useless or aiding capitalists by creating toxicity in anticapitalist places. I cannot see the meme as anything but needlessly mean-spirited.
Am I truly so incomprehensible? I cannot comprehend my initial reply containing so much information about myself to fuel two useful and well-thought, lengthy replies without baseless assumptions. Nor can I understand the effort put in or joy taken from writing so much when a question of less than ten words could have sufficed. So I can do nothing but assume the opposite.
Nor can I understand the effort put in or joy taken from writing so much when a question of less than ten words could have sufficed.
Well in a forum context like this, it (usually) takes less effort to guess and write a response than to write a question then wait for the person to respond, potentially forget about the entire conversational context in the meantime, and then IF they clarify, go back to the context and see what it clarified in order to converse about it further.
I do in fact write questions sometimes in spite of this, but it can be like pulling teeth sometimes getting a straightforward answer of people. You just never know.
I cannot see the meme as anything but needlessly mean-spirited.
That seems like a valid criticism to me. Though the way I take the meme, I think it is probably coming from a place of dealing with anarchists who talk down to marxist-leninists, and so from that standpoint, it’s more of a response to them than it is an attempt to “put them in their place” or something. Especially in the western “left”, there is a history of so-called anarchists who don’t really accomplish much of anything yet are perfectly happy to shit on socialist projects that have accomplished incredible things for their people as “authoritarian” or whatever. So it’s not a disagreement that started today, ya know.
Anarchism and communism (even from ML roots) aren’t incompatible.
I’m not in here smearing communism even as anarchism is being smeared.
By claiming communism to be compatible with anarchism you did smear communism.
Are an-coms on the same level as an-caps to you?
“Anarchist communists” don’t really exist. Communists practice Dialectical and Historical Materialism and follow the Scientific Socialist path to the stateless society laid out by Marx and Engles. “An-coms” are Utopian idealists with good intentions but they are just anarchists.
“Anarchist Capitalists” are just capitalists who want to abolish age of consent laws.
Yeah, both are meme ideologies.
Congratulations, you managed to say absolutely nothing of substance and instead resorted to critiquing my character instead of my argument.
It is very clear that you do not read.
Lumpen indeed.
May you one day be capable of more than assuming and skimming. If that isn’t written plainly enough, there is little hope.
lmfao capitalist societies are literally structured to protect the interests of the ruling class
Yes.
