As I commented on this post in another community:
I find the kind of absolutism found in the headline, extremely unhelpful, not to mention total horse shit.
“Liberals” (and I’m not even getting into what people here define as “liberals”) absolutely can confront capitalism in order to address environmental concerns, they just don’t like to and find it very difficult. But it is certainly possible, and, with enough cajoling, absolutely can do so.
This “us versus them” attitude, and this level of absolute defeatism only makes the job much more difficult for everyone. Instead, I suggest we all focus on how to get the job done rather than focusing on all of the barriers in our way— unless it’s on how to overcome them.
“Liberals” (and I’m not even getting into what people here define as “liberals”) absolutely can confront capitalism in order to address environmental concerns…
I don’t think you’re grasping the statement. It’s not a philosophical limitation, it’s a systemic one. Liberals are dependent on corporate donations to maintain the level of messaging necessary to remain competitive with the hyper-capitalist right. It is not, in fact, merely the case that they don’t want to, it is the case that even if they wanted to they would lose the ability to speak in a system where the only speech that matters is dollars and cents.
The “us vs them” is an intentional part of the psyop
Care to elaborate?
These posts are an organized effort to create infighting intentionally to prevent progress
Indeed.
The conversation has many gray areas, nuances and compromises… black and white, is-vs-them reduces the thing to something that favors “base” (dumb) knee-jerk reactions… right wing views in other words.
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So, all evidence suggests that the “it’s really hard for them” is exactly the same as “can’t confront capitalism”.
The us VS them idea is because it is infact the political and wealth classes against everyone else.
Capitalists have fully captured our politicians nearly the entire world over. If they hadn’t, we’d have none literally anything useful about climate change in the last 100+ years we’ve known it’s an issue.
I consider myself a fully committed progressive and liberal. I will happily give up some material advantage to help those that need it. I don’t think that there is anything special in this.
Some is doing lots of work. But also I think this is also quite typical.
We, as American or Developed Western World citizens, have to homely acknowledge that we can’t really speak on absolutes about “capitalism.”
European political discourse is more nuanced for many reasons, but here in America we are talking about things like there are good and bad comic-book guys and stuff.
We all benefit from a society that utilizes capitalistic structures. It is totally off the rails (and has been since the 80s), and absolutely is holding our own societies back (so that a relative handful of people can benefit within their lifetimes).
We can’t have that conversation in America because it’s easier mentally to use charities, and most people we interact with are also intellectually infantile and can’t even give you a decent explanation of what is different about socialism and communism, much less what fascism means.
The reality is they “China” is dog-walking us, but not because they are an evil autocracy with brainwashed and subjugated masses of people, but because we have been self-sabotaging for decades now.
If “America” was more egalitarian it would still be the most desirable place to be. The smartest and most capable people would be beating the doors down to be here, every other major country would be trying hard to follow our leaked, etc.
As a counter to China we can talk about India. A county with just as many people and lots of economic development that could happen organically, and no lack of brainpower and human energy and ingenuity, but it’s an absolute shitshow.
A country that has deeply routed social inequalities wired into it, with a healthy dose of British imperialist mindset and infrastructure… a very few rich people and empowered classes (castes) and everyone else living in shit. And still, the smartest people want to flee to greener pastures.
America is becoming (regressing) toward what India and other chaotic third world counties and societies are instead of charting the path that “modern/secular/western” society has more of less been charting for the last two or three hundred years.
