DISCLAIMER: this is not my content that was removed, I just came across it in the modlog and found it to be absurd. If itās not allowed, I totally understand.
Reason removed was because itās unrelated.
Unrelatedā¦ā¦
The guy was illegally deported without due process. And yet for some reason, suggesting so is somehow āunrelatedā to a meme that is trying to say that because he is affiliated (no charges were ever filed against him for gang-related activity) with a gang, he is by default, guilty.
Whatās ironic, is that the entire point of the meme is that the bullshit about him being in MS-13 is unrelated to the fact that people want accountability for this administration illegally deporting a man without due process.
This mod has definitely chosen the correct name.
And even taken into consideration that the instance is essentially a troll haven for wayward 4Chan refugees, they should still have to adhere to the rules of common sense.
āHeās MS-13!ā Prove it in court then. Fuck me Iām tired of Americans being 100% wrong about everything and then trying to sound adult by having lengthy ādebatesā about it.
Already proven in court. Twice.
On the off-chance that you donāt actually know that what youāve said is incorrect, hereās a link to wikipedia. Skip on down to the section, ā2019 detention and bond hearings.ā Youāll see that whatever dumbass told you that a court āprovedā that Mr. Garcia was related to MS-13 was saying that ICE found that he couldnāt prove he wasnāt, once, and they upheld that he couldnāt prove he wasnāt, on an appeal. Neither of which is proving anything in court once, let alone twice.
Further, an immigration judge granted him āwithholding of removalā status. This is notable because itās much harder to get a āwithholding of removalā than getting granted asylum, because you have to prove that if youāre sent to the country in question, the government will either persecute you, or choose not to protect you from prosecution.
So, to recap, itās not only not been proved that this guy has any relation to MS-13, but itās been proven to an actual court that if he gets sent to El Salvador, the Barrio 18 gang will kill him. Because the only evidence he has any connection to a gang, is that thereās a gang that wants to kill him.
Wrong. About pretty much everything you just said.
https://ijr.com/doj-releases-full-dossier-of-evidence-that-abrego-garcia-was-ms-13/
He was proven to be MS-13. He doesnāt have to prove he isnāt, they have to prove he is - and they did. Twice. Thatās how courts work.
FYI Wikipedia is not a trusted or reliable source. Avoid using it in future. Thereās a reason itās not allowed as a source in higher education.
Also wrong about the withholding of removal order. He was not granted that due to government persecution - he was granted it because the main rival gang to MS-13 would likely target him. What a strange thing to rule if he isnāt an MS-13 member, right?
Soā¦ the thing is, you linked a right-wing nutjob site, but! I looked into it anyway because Iām always willing to do that. And if you scroll down to where the rag youāre linking says, āwhich he has disputed in court, are included in the release,ā you would see the word āincludedā there is a hyperlink to a justice.gov website, which is the documents involved with the subsection, ā2019 detention and bond hearingsā to which I directed you.
That document is an officer talking about the other men that Garcia was with, theyāre suspected ties to MS-13, and then they talk about Garcia. Why was he suspected of being with MS-13? He was wearing a Chicago Bulls hat. āOfficers know such clothing to be indicative of the Hispanic gang culture.ā His crime was being in a Home Depot parking lot, looking for work, and wearing a Chicago Bulls hat. And I canāt stress enough that the wikipedia link which you found less trustworthy than this garbage, had all of this information!
To continue showing evidence of what I say, here is a link to an actual court document, citing the withholding of removal order. Which was granted. What youāre looking for is at the bottom of page 2- āAlthough Abrego Garcia was found removable, the immigration judge granted him withholding of removal to El Salvador in an order dated October 10, 2019.ā
That ācourt document,ā is the Defendantās Memorandum of Law in Opposition to Plaintiffās Emergency Motion for Temporary Restraining Order. Why am I emphasizing that? Because this was filed by the Department of Homeland Security. This is a document, supplied to court, by Trumpās administration, which states that the withholding status was granted.
You can send me garbage articles from idiots all day but nothing will compete with, āKristi Noem and the Department of Homeland Security list that the withholding status was granted in an actual filing with the court.ā And they not only state that it was granted, they do so under the heading, āStatement of Facts.ā Enjoy.
Finally, the reason that the Barrio 18 was after him had nothing to do with MS-13. They were after him, like they had been after his older brother before him- his mother owns a business, and the Barrio 18 were extorting her.
Iād say Iām looking forward to your next reply, but Iām sure itāll be an extensive moving of goalposts. He had the withholding status. He shouldnāt have been deported. The Supreme Court agrees with me. Thatās really all I need.
I have no idea what the site is, came up as first result in search, but what the site is is irrelevant as itās simply reporting on what the White House/doj/etc has said. Iāve linked AP and other left-wing nut job sites too when they have the correct sources even if I donāt agree with the opinions written around the sources and statements.
He had withholding status, absolutely. The illegal alien act that has been invoked, however, arguably gave them the power to disregard that and deport him. That can be challenged in court if someone wants to.
Youāre also telling lies by saying that the only reason he was determined to be a MS-13 gang member was because of how he was dressed. The government has confirmed that confidential information given to them confirmed that he was MS-13. Not the current government, but the one in 2019. His tattoos on his knuckles fit the mould. The El Salvador president says he is MS-13 and that they wanted him deported to them.
The evidence is stacked up that he is a MS-13 gang member, and he admits to being in the country illegally. What do YOU think should have been done with him if not deportation to his home country where he is a citizen?
As for your reasons why the MS-13 rival gang are after him - thatās all just conjecture. Itās what an illegal immigrant said when faced with being deported to a country he doesnāt want to go back to. It could be true. On the balance of probability, given all we know - illegally entered the country, determined to be a MS-13 gang member, hangs around with other known MS-13 gang members, wears/wore gang affiliated clothing (and yes, the Chicago bulls hat is known to be a MS-13 article of clothing, even if you think it was just a coincidence), has probable gang tattoos, fears being deported - itās probably a safe bet that what he is saying isnāt 100% true.
One aside - on page 3 of that first document it says in one section (humanitarian issues) that he has no fear of returning to El Salvador, but then under another section (intelligence information) it says that he has fear of returning to El Salvador. Iād love to know which it is meant to be, because it canāt be both. It says he declined the offer to call the consulate office in El Salvador. Iām guessing there was no update or clarification of this document that is available?
Heavy bootlicker vibes detectā¦
I hope you are at least paid for shilling for rthe regime abuses lol
lol ah yes, reading the facts of the case makes you a bootlicker. Good one.
You donāt conceptually understand what a the term fact means or the basic legal procedure works.
You are just repeating shill op talking points relying to documents that donāt support that position.
Back into the day we called this stupid but society got too woke to call spade a spade since everyone opinion has value no matter how bad faith it is.
You know exactly what that site is, you lying propagandist POS. Get tf out.
lol I donāt, and Iāll just direct you to the first paragraph of my previous post.
BTW are you saying that what they are reporting the White House/DOJ are saying is incorrect? Not that the white house is incorrect, but that what that site is saying the White House is saying is incorrect.
Sure it has. Go on, do tell. Which court? What case? Who was the Judge?
Immigration court.
https://ijr.com/doj-releases-full-dossier-of-evidence-that-abrego-garcia-was-ms-13/
Ok, thatās something. Letās see, the article headline still says āDOJ Releases Dossier Of Deported Maryland Manās Alleged MS-13 Gang Ties.ā Emphasis added by me. Now why would they say āallegedā if the court already found him guilty? Ah, right, because those were bond hearings. Yes, I actually read the legal documents linked by that article and both court findings were that the unproven claims of gang affiliation, combined with the fact that he had missed traffic court in the past, were sufficient to deny release on bond until his status hearing could be held. No further hearing was ever held. At no point did the legal system establish guilt, make a definitive finding of fact, or make a judicial decision on his deportation.
So, unless you have other court records to link me to that show otherwise, then you are wrong: no such thing has been legally proven.
Edit: Even the appeals Judge refers to it as āallegations of gang affiliationā in their order affirming the lower court decision that you are calling proof.
They werenāt establishing guilt other than was he there illegally, which he was. They did determine that he is an MS-13 member.
The allegations of being a gang member were substantiated. Twice. They didnāt go āoh he didnāt show to traffic court, that means heās a gang member allegedlyā lol
He was ordered to be deported twice - thatās why another court then said he canāt be deported to El Salvador lol
You are a traitor to the constitution. Get the fuck out of our country, your lying cowardly ass doesnāt deserve to live here.
Firstly Iām not in your country.
Secondly, you are arguing that an illegal immigrant who had TWICE been ordered to be deportedā¦should not only be allowed to stay in the USA, but to be brought back from his country (el salvador) into the country he was in illegally (USA).
Then youāre calling me a ātraitorā hahahahaha
Seriously, read the actual fucking legal documents linked in that biased-ass article. They denied him bond while waiting for the real hearing due to the gang allegations. Nothing more, nothing less. The judges themselves refer to them as allegations in their findings. The traffic court thing is unrelated to him being a gang member, it is relevant to if he should be released while waiting, which is the only thing they were finding on. I read the orders myself, they clearly make no finding on if heās in a gang and no findings on deportation.
This person isnāt arguing in good faith. They straight up ignored my reply to try and argue with you. I linked the same documents that came from that same bullshit article they linked to me and they refuse to look at them, they just keep parroting, āproven in court twice! Proven in court twice!ā
Theyāre going to argue with anything they see, and they canāt be swayed by facts.
Yeah, I saw. To be fair to them, I did respond after your last response, so perhaps thatās why they jumped to responding to me instead. Who knows? And yeah, I was planning to give up on them if they did anything other than make a coherent response actually addressing my argument with something from the court docs, which I think is highly unlikely.
Iām sorry I havenāt āstraight up ignoredā your reply, Iām working backwards through notifications when I can. Donāt worry, Iāll get to yours. I donāt ignore people trying to have a conversation with me, I thought that would be obvious to you since you seem to be following my replies.
I ākeep parrotingā that it was determined in court twice because - get this - it was. The gang member allegations were determined to be true by the immigration court, and then by the next court after that finding was appealed. Do you disagree with those statements?
I will gladly be proven wrong and happily admit when I am wrong, because I value learning over pretty much all else in my life. If you can show me that it has been determined in a court that he ISNāT an MS-13 gang member, go ahead.
The allegations were determined to be true. Do you think that gang members carry a gang membership card or something? Thereās no āofficialā gang membership paperwork, everything is āallegedā even after courts deem the allegations to be true.
He admits to being in the country illegally. He was found to be a MS-13 gang member. Both of those things are cause for deportation individually. When you combine they itās a slam dunk. The only reason he wasnāt deported was because of fear that MS-13s rival gang would persecute him upon his return, which basically confirms that he is an MS-13 member. If heās not MS-13, why would MS-13s rival gang want him dead?
Why do you think that it even got to the ruling staying his deportation? Because he was going to be deported. 6 years ago. For some absurd reason he has just been able to wander around the USA as an illegal immigrant for the last 6 years because some judge said sending him home is dangerous because of a rival gang š¤£. What sort of stupid situation is that? Illegally in the country, known about, but allowed to stay because not allowed to send him to his home country where he is a citizen.
So whatās the next step? Deport him to a random country where he isnāt a citizen either, where theyāll just send him straight back? Put him in jail for breaking the law by coming in to the country illegally? They canāt just block the only available deportation destination so he gets to illegally stay in the USA forever. So again - what is the next step? What do YOU think should be done with him? He would NOT win any court case fighting against his illegal alien status because he is an illegal alien, self admittedly.
Youāre a fucking liar and a traitor.
No, they werenāt! Quote me the legal text were the judge says that. You canāt, itās not in there. I guess you still didnāt read what the judges wrote because you just keep quoting that incorrect article. The judges found the allegations plausible enough to deny bond. Thatās it! There was no further legal finding. You keep saying over and over that it was āfoundā by the court but thatās simply a lie. I donāt know if youāre being obtuse on purpose or not. Also, thatās not how allegations work. Once itās been found true beyond a reasonable doubt by a court, it is no longer alleged. Judges only say alleged when they mean that something is unproven. Itās pretty simple, I donāt how this is confusing to you. So, there is no legal finding of gang membership, and any argument made on this fictitious āfindingā is meaningless.
Lots of reasons a gang would want someone dead besides being in a rival gang. This argument is also meaningless. Taking out the remaining nonsense, thereās not much else to respond to.
Same as anybody. He should be given his court case. What the judge says goes, subject to appeal. If the judge says deport him, then yeah, deport him, I wouldnāt care then. What I care about is that the Fifth amendment says everyone gets due process. It doesnāt say āunless theyāre sure to loseā or āunless youāre convinced theyāre a gang memberā or āunless theyāre an illegal immigrant.ā It does say, āNo person shall be [ā¦] deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law,ā which, unless you donāt consider him a person, is pretty fucking clear.
It was alleged. If youāre accepting that without proof you have an agenda.
Yes it was alleged - and the courts agreed with the allegations and found them to be true TWICE.
What donāt you understand about this?
Useful idiot