- cross-posted to:
- world@quokk.au
I’m actually curious, given you recently posted The Automation of the Hollow, how you would compare the integration of AI and automation in Chinese firms vs American ones? From the article it does seem that China is genuinely able to use this technology to increase output and reduce inefficiencies (coal consumption), whereas you pointed out that US firms often don’t.
I think the difference comes down to the material conditions. The US is largely a financialized economy, so the niches for automation are largely in the bullshit economy. In China, there is a huge industrial base and as a result there are a lot of opportunities for AI integration within factories, supply chains, and so on.
It’s also worth noting that AI is a very general term. The hype bubble is around LLMs which is what I was discussing in the article, but this is just one branch of research. They’re great for making chat bots, but you need different types of AI, like symbolic logic engines, for robotics. So, I imagine the AI industry in China is a lot more diversified because automation is being applied in a far broader context. The focus there isn’t just on making chatbots. I wrote an article about that earlier here incidentally.
In my opinion, really interesting AI developments are happening precisely in the area of robotics. Training through embodiment and constructing an internal world model makes it possible to do genuine reasoning about how objects behave in the physical world. We have a continuous feedback loop where we take an action, and see the result. That’s our shared context we lean on when communicating with each other. This context is key for being able to explain why you made a particular decision, and allows for error correction and guidance towards better decisions through conversation. This is largely what we mean by having understanding in a human sense. So, what China is doing with robotics is leading to AI systems that can take over jobs that produce use-value as their output.
How that develops will be interesting to watch because then we’ll have a real test of socialism in China. If China is genuinely socialist then we should expect mass automation of physical labor to start translating into people having more free time and doing less work overall.
Thanks for the clarification. I do agree that China’s development in AI / deep learning is significantly broader than the hype in the US, which translates to a more robust development in the productive forces. The other thing I wanted to ask is the bit about China’s shrinking population. Given the indispensable value of labour in the economy, is that a legitimate problem in the long run? Or is just the latest evolution of the western “China is Collapsing!!!” narrative?
The whole narrative about a demographic crisis in China is largely based on misinterpretation of the data, these are two great links explaining the actual situation
- https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2108900118
- https://asiatimes.com/2023/07/chinas-demographic-doomsayers-cite-the-wrong-data/
It’s also worth noting that the situation in the US is actually worse right now. This is a good video about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj_go157Rf0
The gist of it is that the US population is already older than China. The US has almost 18% of its population over 65, while China is only around 14%, and the youth populations are basically the same percentage now. In fact, China doesn’t even make the list of the world’s oldest countries, that’s all Japan and Europe. China also has a higher percentage of working-age people at 69% compared to 65% in the US. While 4% doesn’t sound like a big deal, we have to keep in mind that China has over a billion more people. The gap is a massive in absolute workforce numbers. Finally, China is starting to open up immigration with stuff like K visas. As a result, there’s already an exodus of scientists leaving the US for China.
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:



