• Sanctus@anarchist.nexus
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    59
    arrow-down
    6
    ·
    edit-2
    11 days ago

    You dont understand, my centralized power structure is based on giving. It could never be commandeered by power hungry psychopaths and used for their own gain like the rest of the power structures around the globe.

    • JillyB@beehaw.org
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      15
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      11 days ago

      One of the tent-poles of Marxism is the idea that actions are driven by material conditions. It seems so obvious to me that the material conditions of a self-appointed vanguard class (regardless of their original intentions) will lead them to be tyrants. “Absolute power corrupts absolutely” as they say.

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        12
        ·
        edit-2
        11 days ago

        Vanguards are not “self-appointed,” they are chosen and backed by the broader working class, which is how they have any powwr in the first place. Secondly, the idea that “absolute power corrupts absolutely” is closer to idealism than materialism.

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            8
            arrow-down
            7
            ·
            11 days ago

            The constituent assembly, the bourgeois institution the workers had already abandoned in favor of the soviet government? Why would anyone hold legitimacy to that? The workers rallied around the bolsheviks, and the SRs backed the overthrow of the state and following the soviets anyways. The bolsheviks had their power from mass support, and because the other groups rallied around them, rather than the SRs, whites, etc.

            • poVoq@slrpnk.net
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              11
              arrow-down
              6
              ·
              11 days ago

              Right, that is what Lenin said afterwards to justify this blatant power grab by force. You are really funny 🤡

              • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                7
                arrow-down
                7
                ·
                11 days ago

                No? It was the truth. The majority of the faction vote supported overthrowing the constituent assembly and only recognizing the soviet government, which was by that time the government recognized by the working classes. That means that the total of the SRs, Mensheviks, and Bolsheviks voted in outweighed the votes the Right SRs and other factions, and thus support for overthrowing the constituent assembly in favor of the soviets was popular.

                Shortly after, the Left SRs and Bolsheviks formed a coalition, and won against the Right SRs among the peasantry, effectively a vote to support the soviet government. After the overthrow of the Tsar, the workers threw the broad majority of their support behind the bolsheviks, with most Left SRs and Mensheviks joining the bolsheviks and the rights split between the whites and the bolsheviks.

                I really don’t know what you’re trying to get at, here, do you think the Kerensky government was popular?

                • poVoq@slrpnk.net
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  11
                  arrow-down
                  6
                  ·
                  11 days ago

                  Yes, the “truth” as written by Soviet historians afterwards 🙄

                  The Bolshevik were deeply unpopular and could not claim at all to represent the working class. They only got into power through political maneuvering and outright violence. Maybe at the time they were seen as the lesser evil, but that sure turned out to be a big miscalculation after Lenin started to purge his former political allies.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      10 days ago

      We don’t believe socialism to be pure of corruption, but that it’s both more resistant to it and more effective in general at meeting the needs of the people. The problem isn’t with power structures, but the mode of production and distribution, and the class character of the state. States run by the working classes as a consequence take better care of their people and those they rely on than capitalist ones do. Even the nordics, which are generally nice for their own population, rely on imperialism and foreign plunder to keep going, while socialist countries do not.

  • Fleur_@aussie.zone
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    6
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    11 days ago

    Nothing makes me more skeptical of anarchism than being told I’d have to rely on my local community.

    • Deceptichum@quokk.auOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      11
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      11 days ago

      Sounds like you need to work on improving your local community.

      Where I am in Melbourne, we’re a large and diverse group of people, there are constant events and community acitivities, a large co-op garden is just down the hill from me, at the park nearby there’s frequently food trucks helping the poor/homeless.

      It’s not perfect, but give me more of that over Albanese and his genocidal enabling, Trump buddy-ness any day. I’d rather see my taxes/work go towards building this up than subsiding a mining company.

      • Fleur_@aussie.zone
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        10 days ago

        Mmm maybe i should work on it, perhaps through a hierarchical structure that works to organise people, bring out their best and simplify interactions with other communities?

        • Deceptichum@quokk.auOP
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          8
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          10 days ago

          Or instead of trying to have someone be above the others and dictate to them, you could just work together with them for the betterment of your community 🤷

            • Deceptichum@quokk.auOP
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              7
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              10 days ago

              No.

              Empowering everyone to work together would help with that.

              Giving everyone a voice and a chance to meet and talk together to work out the how they would like a better community to look would help with that.

              Ordering people around will only give you exactly what you already have as I assume you live in a LGA, with a hierarchical structure already, no?

  • liuther9@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    arrow-down
    8
    ·
    11 days ago

    I really think there is no way of fixing this world. Carl Sagan foreseen it many years ago and said that we are fuked