Is it simply over-correcting in response to western anti-communist propaganda? I’d like to think it’s simply memeing for memes sake, but it feels too genuine.

      • ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip
        123·
        6 months ago

        Mhm. I get that your country is hostile to the world and its own citizens. I do. But that doesn’t make Stalin - or any era USSR - good. This dichotomy of white vs black, good vs evil is the most USian brainwashing that is afflicted on your people. From your post I can see you preemptively dismiss any critisizm or argument and while you said MLs don’t idealise Stalin, it seems that you do.

        Those who denounce Stalin entirely, also denounce the USSR, and existing socialism.

        I’m from Poland. To us, to a country betrayed by the Allies and sold to Stalin, their occupation did not bring prosperity, or equality, nor socialism. We were systematically robbed by the USSR from the wealth, intellect and industry (as noted by then governments and listed as a plea for USSR to stop), and even lives. We were made to take loans to invest in the Empire, while staying a satelite country and tying our planned economy to better native Russian territories. We did call then the Red Army - Red Locust. You need to realise that when you glorify it, you automatically dismiss our traumatic past. It is like getting told by a stupid child that if we’re hungry we should eat cake.

        Since USA wages war outside its territory and was never invaded nor conquered, you might not know that trauma - especially from war and being a conquered nation, worse nation - is transgenerational https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgenerational_trauma

        Were there people who thrived under USSR occupation? Yes, but they are thriving currently too, both politicians and capitalist leeches. Did Poland progress under the occupation? Yes, like every damn other country in Europe. We would progress more as free people, no historian thinks differently.

        The latter, Stalin’s policy positions, are largely either contextualized and explained, rather than actively defended, or are genuinely good feats

        When I read your comments I can’t not see you as anything else than a guilt feeling nepo baby. Or at least someone so privileged, that they never ever thought about other people lives outside of statistics. An empty headed academic.

        Tl; dr; the revolution was made into abomination of itself and claiming otherwise is blindness

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
          65·
          6 months ago

          Mhm. I get that your country is hostile to the world and its own citizens. I do. But that doesn’t make Stalin - or any era USSR - good.

          The USSR was good based on its own progressive merits.

          From your post I can see you preemptively dismiss any critisizm or argument and while you said MLs don’t idealise Stalin, it seems that you do.

          I don’t.

          I’m from Poland. To us, to a country betrayed by the Allies and sold to Stalin, their occupation did not bring prosperity, or equality, nor socialism.

          I’ve spoken to people from Poland that have the opposite to say. The fall of socialism in Poland brought a dramatic collapse in any kind of left, which is why Poland is so far-right today.

          We were systematically robbed by the USSR from the wealth, intellect and industry (as noted by then governments and listed as a plea for USSR to stop), we were made take loans to invest in the Empire, while staying a satelite country. We did call then the Red Army - Red Locust. You need to realise that when you glorify it, you automatically dismiss our traumatic past. It is like getting told by a stupid child that if we’re hungry we should eat cake.

          Again, I’ve heard much the opposite. That’s why anecdotes are terrible measures of truth. The collapse of socialism in Eastern Europe brought skyrocketing poverty rates, prostitutuon, drug abuse, homelessness, and 7 million excess deaths.

          Since USA wages war outside its territory and was never invaded, you might not know that trauma - especially from war and being a conquered nation - is transgenerational https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgenerational_trauma

          I’m aware.

          Were they people who thrived under USSR occupation? Yes, but they are thriving currently too, both politicians and capitalist leeches. Did Poland progress under the occupation? Yes, like every damn other country in Europe. We would progress more as free people, no historian thinks differently.

          And yet Poland is now in a far-right spiral with far greater disparity.

          When I read your comments I can’t not see you as anything else than a guilt feeling nepo baby. Or at least someone so privileged, that they never ever thought about other people lives outside of statistics. An empty headed academic.

          Cool story, you know nothing about me. Believe it or not, statistics and historical fact do outweigh simple anecdote, and the idea that I have never thought about people’s lives outside of statistics is deeply wrong.

          • ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip
            73·
            6 months ago

            Splitting this to a separate comment because it was too long:

            The fall of socialism in Poland brought a dramatic collapse in any kind of left, which is why Poland is so far-right today.

            I mean dude, not even close. Polish leftist parties were antiworker from the 90s. Anything further left was dismissed as “USSR was saying the same lies”. Fool me once kind of thing.

            Add to that the short time where there was upwards mobility in the country when it first became “capitalists”, as well as fhe fact that in the past 20 years median personal real wealth grew.

            And yet Poland is now in a far-right spiral with far greater disparity

            Yup. The current generation is seeing that the wealth is unequally distributed (1% owns 45% of wealth), as well as all those rentier leeches, banks making record profits year after year, and the Facebook/Tiktok ( or generally USA right wing) propaganda is turning like 10% into MAGA-style idiots, and the rest is also slowly radicalizing. We do see that in the below 35 age group the left-leaning is still strongest, but the PIS and Konfederacja are following Repulican party strategies and gaining tracktion.

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
              53·
              6 months ago

              So in other words, the far-right used the standard red-scare playbook to purge communists and socialists, and now Poland has immense disparity and is entirely controlled by the far-right.

              • ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip
                53·
                6 months ago

                No, don’t hyperbolize. This isn’t your narrative.

                the far-right used the standard red-scare playbook to purge communists and socialists

                No. It was everyone in the free Poland. We were rebelling constantly under USSR occupation.

                and now Poland has immense disparity and is

                No. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.POV.GINI?locations=PL&start=1985 But we do see foreign corporations leeching from us and actively enshittifying. The home ownership rate is decreasing.

                and is entirely controlled by the far-right.

                That depends what you mean by far right. I’d call the current political landscape of Poland as right-centrist PO in coalition with centrists (the rest of the coalition) vs (oppositon) right-centrist PiS with (growing) republican-clone Konfederacja

                  • ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip
                    53·
                    6 months ago

                    The Polish economy was hit particularly hard by the 2008/2009 crisis.

                    ??? We’re famously the only country in the EU that wasn’t affected by it. Please be critical of what you read.

                    What a garbage article you sent here.

                    Further, disparity in Poland is high,

                    I literally send you a credible source that shows its similar to 1985 year. Are you saying that it was high during USSR occupation or ignoring the source?

          • ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip
            53·
            6 months ago

            What anecdote? I’ve made no anecdotes? The only person mentioning any anecdotes is you, e.g.

            Again, I’ve heard much the opposite

            Regarding USSR stealing industry:

            https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grabież_i_przejmowanie_mienia_poniemieckiego_na_Ziemiach_Odzyskanych#%3A~%3Atext=Grabież+i+przejmowanie+mienia+poniemieckiego+na+Ziemiach+Odzyskanych+–+Wikipedia%2C+wolna+encyklopedia

            (I’m sorry wo don’t really translate that to English). But you can try to Google for sources in English.

            I’ve spoken to people from Poland that have the opposite to say

            You might’ve spoken to people who remember the late 80’s fondly. Not 50-70s. Or ZOMO (secret terror police) or similar, they always had privileged lives.

            Unless you were in the Party, Army or Zomo, life was not roses at all, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_October

            The collapse of socialism in Eastern Europe brought skyrocketing poverty rates, prostitutuon, drug abuse, homelessness, and 7 million excess deaths.

            1. Poland is not Eastern Europe

            2. prostitutuon, drug abuse, homelessness <- you might be confusing that with what is common in the USA.

            3. Excess deaths https://wol.iza.org/articles/mortality-crisis-in-transition-economies/long#%3A~%3Atext=Features+of+the+transition+mortality%2Climited+changes+in+family+stability.

            4. skyrocketing poverty rates

            Not really, no? After we detached from the ZSSR everything had to be restarted and the first decade was hard. We had to start from little, figure out export routes, rebuild a damn lot of industries etc? We were economy attached and made dependant on USSR, how could the split not be hard?