A non-aggression pact can be just that. This one also included additional provisions, such as dividing Poland between them. When you’re carving up Poland together and shaking hands at the pre-set dividing line, it’s not really reaching very far to say the two countries in question are aligned. They were certainly aligned when it came to dividing Poland.
Reminds me of people purposefully paying too high income taxt. “It’s a nice bonus when I get it back”. I guess some sort of reasoning is that you’re then forced to put some money away and can’t spend it, but those same people will also take high-interest loans that’ll cost them dearly because now they don’t have that money at hand. And this is an actual person I know who has done this.
Crazy logic.
Friend, the “independent Polish state” isn’t a serious suggestion of it being independent… It’s discussing something akin to “Independent State of Croatia”, as in a puppet state.
sounds a lot less bad
I guess that’s progress from “didn’t happen”. In any case, I just mentioned that the pact happened. If you want my opinion on other deals made with Nazis, they’re also morally very dubious.
And imagine blaming the Soviets for going in to countries aligned with nazis.
Like Finland, where you’re probably are from and explains your bias.
That’s quite the ex post facto justification. Before and during Winter War it wasn’t Finland but the USSR that was aligned with Nazi Germany (see the pact we discussed). Nazi Germany sold Finland to USSR, after all. Finland was aligned towards UK and France. It was as a result of the war that Finland turned to Nazi Germany (the secret protocols weren’t known at the time) and that Nazi Germany got interested in Finland.
But in any case, I just wanted to point out that the pact between USSR and Nazi-Germany did happen. How bad it is comparatively, I’m sure there’s a fruitful conversation to be had about that, but it’s sorta out of scope on what I was hoping to discuss tbh.
You get that Russia flight with Germany until they got betrayed right? Right?
never happened.
That was the preceding discussion. Someone seemed to be denying it happening at all. Someone came in with a justification for the action, I was just saying that it doesn’t change the fact of it happening, just the justification over it. For further clarification, I’m against the denialism. I’m not saying it wasn’t a pragmatic decision, even if morally dubious.
I mean they are literally drawing spheres of interest (even using the word) in there on how they’ll divide those countries. And then after the deal, they conquered and subjugated their subjective areas (or tried to, in case of Finland). Your objection to that not being them dividing Europe between them is, not to be insulting, kinda silly.
I mean if anything at least you’re not trying to deny such an agreement, you’re just reading it in a very interesting way. That’s something.
I think you misunderstood. It doesn’t change the fact that such a pact happened and that they did divide Europe between them in it. It’s opinion on how justified such a thing where those arguments matter.
Wikipedia just has approachable articles, so I linked to that since you seemingly hadn’t heard of the pact. It cites sources like so [1] for further reading. And the existence of such pact has been admitted to in Germany, Soviet Union and later in Russia. Its existence isn’t exactly controversial. It’s rather how justified it was that’s argued about.
You claim it’s in that pact, then go to the absolute source and show me where it is.
Here’s the original texts [1], [2]. If you want an English translation, plenty of them online. Heres’ one (pdf). The secret protocols are at the end.
It was just funny the way you dismissed the claim without testing it yourself. But it’s almost too silly to be true
You know, you could’ve just tested it yourself lol
Ye unlike American
Who saw this coming lmao
You might want to read the whole first sentence of the article lol
was a non-aggression pact between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union, with a secret protocol establishing Soviet and German spheres of influence across Eastern Europe.
Doesn’t it say that it is advertising bloodletting?
Not sure if you’re joking but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov–Ribbentrop_Pact
It stays in the thing until you put the cart back.
Why waste your fake coin
I mean it doesn’t change the fact that Soviet Union did make a deal with the Nazis and split Europe between them. Nobody is doubting that there was a reason for doing it.
My first thought too.
And to anyone confused why do this, it’s so people return the carts
I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt since their tone seemed to be changing a bit during the discussion, but it turned out it was just the old “that didn’t happen and even if it did” thing.