Bariatric surgery comes with a ton of problems as well including the possibility of malnutrition. Definitely not something to take lightly nor am I championing it.

Health is definitely a better goal than weight. Smokers are typically lower weight than non smokers, but I wouldn’t recommend that, either. Decoupling health from weight is a challenge when it comes to healthcare (in terms of doctors and insurance).

Again, thanks for the interesting article; I had previously heard about the negative cardiovascular effects of keto, but it might be time to update some of those conceptions.

Thank you so much for the link! Those are amazing results for diabetics in terms of most cardiovascular health markers. I’m going to address the weight loss part of it and why I don’t consider it an example of successful weight loss.

Full text of the study linked in the article at https://www.diabetesresearchclinicalpractice.com/article/S0168-8227(24)00808-8/fulltext

First up: all participants had type 2 diabetes. I’m going to brush that away because my main point is even if this holds for the general population, it’s not a method that works for a majority of people even in the study for 10% loss and 10% isn’t that much over 5 years.

Among five-year completers, 61.3 % and 39.5 % of the participants sustained 5 % and 10 % weight loss.

The original study started with 262 participants, all of whom that type 2 diabetes. This was down to 122 at the end of the five years. Drop outs in studies are normal, and having done keto myself, it’s really hard. Let’s ignore the drop outs since we don’t have data on if they stopped doing keto or just stopped being in the study. Just wanted to mention that we’re down by half already.

Of the remaining participants, at the end of 5 years of keto, only ~40% lost and kept off 10% of their body weight. They used a baseline of 128.7kg (~280 lbs). Using that as a starting point for this example, the best case scenario for weight loss is 116kg (256 lbs) if you’re in the lucky~40% of people that can stick to the diet for 5 years and are in the group it works for. Even if you’re 7 feet tall, 116kg is still considered overweight. You’ve maybe changed your BMI category (BMI sucks btw). You are still fat.

I wouldn’t consider having less than a coin toss’s chance at 10% loss after 5 years a method that consistently turns fat people into not fat people.

(Note I’m not trying to move the goalposts here and quibble about what percentage is significant, etc., it’s just nowhere close to bariatric surgery.

In comparing the body weight of the 64 followed patients 5 years after surgery and before surgery, 62 patients (93.9%) experienced weight loss (31.50 (20.00–44.25) kg)

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7761683/

That’s closer to 25% loss, most of which happens in the first 6 months. That’s more than double the percentage loss of keto and more than doubles the success rate of the greatest loss category.)

Make restoration a primary skill so you can deal with your deteriorating lungs from all that ash in the air.

I guess not enough people

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Saw X

I don’t think they would have crippled CentOS without financial incentive and pressure from IBM. I don’t think they’re as independent as you think they are, even if it looks that way on paper.

IBM are still ass and antiuser. See the whole CentOS/Rocky split. I’ve also got personal beef with them regarding buying up and enshittifying small data centers.

A question about myths that’s just people reciting myths without backing them up is a recipe for lots of BS. Saying science has no place in dispelling myths seems like a weird take, but if it is, I’m glad you don’t want to engage. Bye!

Nope, you read that correctly. There is no current proven nonsurgical method for people to lose and keep off significant weight long term. The meta study I linked had to minimize the amount lost and the timespan to get positive results. Citations to the contrary are welcome. Anything aside from citations is not.

Bonus article: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10541056/

From the abstract:

Over the past three decades, researchers have found that biopsychosocial factors determine weight gain much more than personal choices and responsibility.

Thanks. If I do a search, other things like this come up that say increased potassium word be a better countermeasure than reduced sodium https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/HYPERTENSIONAHA.123.20545

There are reliable nonsurgical ways to lose weight long term.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23859104/ just the abstract, but basically most people can’t sustain a 5 % loss over 3 years with most regaining the weight and some adding additional weight.

Even the studies that claim long term success have to use shorter time-frames:

https://ajcn.nutrition.org/article/S0002-9165(23)29536-2/fulltext

The above one defines successful long term weight loss as 10% reduction after one year with about a 20% success rate. To put this in perspective, a 300 pound person in a weight loss success if they get to 270 and stay there for a year.

To maintain their weight loss, members report engaging in high levels of physical activity (≈1 h/d), eating a low-calorie, low-fat diet, eating breakfast regularly, self-monitoring weight, and maintaining a consistent eating pattern across weekdays and weekends.

An hour of physical activity every single day on a reduced calorie diet sounds miserable. That’s your life, it revolves around finding time to both do an hour of serious exercise and planning what you eat.

Only replies with citations from reputable journals will be taken seriously. The plural of anecdote is not data.

Citation?