Carl is outside in his boxers trying to get his girlfriend’s cat out of a tree when everything with a roof on the planet is destroyed and the smaller number of survivors are made to compete in an intergalactic dungeon game similar to D&D. If this sounds kind of dumb, I described it correctly; it’s kind of dumb. It’s also fairly entertaining and has a good amount of heart. People who have played any sort of role playing game, like World Of Warcraft, will probably be extra amused.
Anyone saying that DCC is not sci-fi is wrong. I’ll assume you haven’t read it. The ENTIRE STORY is about an Alien syndicate causing the apocalypse on Earth to force humans to play what is essentially a real life video game. It’s run by aliens, and hyper advanced AI. It’s full of real functional science portals. The fantasy elements of the book are artifice for the game. This is some pretty weird gatekeeping. I think people are getting sci-fi and hard sci-fi confused. Just chill out. There is no lack of Sci-Fi in this world, and if you haven’t read DCC you are doing yourself a disservice.
Are you replying to the person you meant to?
I’m putting this at top level. It’s for anyone engaging in this silly argument.
Okay, works for me. I was the OP who posted my review of DCC, and the one who said I feel there’s a spectrum between Fantasy and SF, not a hard line, and that DCC in my opinion is slightly left of center.
I’m about a third of the way into the first book. A friend of mine has been reading the series, and he said it’d be right up my alley. Between that and everyone on the internet talking about these books, I figured I’d give it a shot.
Immediate regret. From the moment I started reading, I was getting flashbacks to reading Stephanie Meyers twenty years ago: the repetitive language; mundane grammar; weird, heavy-handed characterizations. The presentation was similar to the bad fanfics and YA novels that were coming out when I was in my 20s.
I keep trying to give it the benefit of the doubt. I get the impression that the main character is supposed to be a little dim, so maybe the first-person narration is supposed to be reflecting that? But even that only explains some of it. It’s otherwise so trope-y and winking. Reading it honestly feels like watching Spielberg’s Ready Player One again, where the point is not a good story, interesting characters, or even good craft, just nodding at the in-jokes.
I’m going to finish this first book this weekend, because I made the mistake of buying it. But unless something substantially changes in the next couple hundred pages, I will not be continuing the series.
So, yeah, I’m glad people are reading it and enjoying it. Just wanted to provide a different opinion from all the comments glazing it, because it doesn’t have universal appeal.
I appreciate that hot take. First books, IMO, tend to be more formulaic. I’m currently reading and on book 5, and there’s been a number of times the author’s used strong vocaublary or literary devices that I’ve appreciated. The feel of the series has certainly made some adjustments, and it makes sense considering he’s at six and change years writing it at this point.
I agree and I’m not the biggest fan, but it does get much better if you can get through the first half of book 1.
Ready Player One is kind of a good comparison; both in that case and in this one, my expectations were pretty low, but I enjoyed reading them. My reading list is mostly populated with nominees and winners of the major SF&F awards, but I decided to read this one based on recommendations from folks here in Lemmy, and because of folks I talk with a lot online (I play wow classic). I wasn’t really expecting it to be amazingly well crafted, but I still maintain is silly fun.
Doughnut Holes represent! All hail Princess Doughnut. I just finished book 4.
DAMMIT DONUT!!!
Awesome. I assume that means that at least the second and third are good? Do the books get more or less entertaining as it goes along?
I finished the most recent, #8. I think it was the weakest of the series, just because there are so many plot threads and characters to help track of at this point.
Huh, okay. Not many series can stay even decent for eight books, so that’s encouraging.
The floors are quite different, which keeps it interesting. If’n you liked the first one, I’m reasonably confident that you’ll like the rest.
Thanks. I decided to go ahead and read the second one now (I often read other things between books in a series).
I enjoyed them; They were pretty good. maybe a bit cliche, but hey, that’s part of the charm.
I’m on five and it’s mostly stayed constant. I haven’t seen it get better or worse.
Good to know, thanks
Spoiler review: This series is “science” fiction with no emphasis on actual science. It’s about as genuine science fiction as Anne Rice’s vampire and Atlantis books. The books should be labeled YA. It’s Twilight for video game fans, more in the recent trend of books for people who don’t read books.
If you want well written science fiction pick up something from Neal Stephenson. If you want fantasy go with Brandon Sanderson.
Sorry to hurt folks feelings, but I’m sure I’m not the only one who had this series enthusiastically recommended and bought it without knowing the truth.
To give additional options, because Stephenson and Sanderson aren’t everyone’s cups of tea (producing insanely large tomes like Reamde, Cryptonomicon, and the Way of Kings), you may also consider the following, which are either hard scifi (requires few, if any, scientific discoveries we currently lack), speculative SciFi (requires one or two unexplained leaps of scientific advancement, but thoroughly explores the mechanics and consequences thereof), or speculative fantasy (any magic system is internally consistent, operates in particular ways, and the interactions between them are explored)
- Adrian Tchaikovsky, creator of the most - realistic alien species in literature: Children of Time Series (Spec. SciFi (but only barely), Tyrant Philosophers Series (Spec. Fantasy), and an insane number of standalone stories among the three genres listed above, such as Alien Clay, Shroud, and And Put Away Childish Things
- Dennis E. Taylor, for those with crippling reference-itis and enough of a science background to want the author to regularly presume the reader’s knowledge of plate tectonics and special relativity: Bobiverse Series (Spec. SciFi, but only because of “subspace” and optoelectronics), Outland Series (Spec. SciFi, because the portal’s function is never explained)
- Andy Weir, who makes every book a high-school science class (in the best way) with a plot: The Martian & Project Hail Mary (Both Hard SciFi, and I’ll fight anyone who tries to claim that the astrophage makes PHM speculative), also, several short stories, including The Egg (Spec. Fantasy) and James Moriarty, Consulting Criminal (Historical Fiction/Mystery)
- David Mitchell, who is like if James Michener wrote historical fantasy: Cloud Atlas (Historical/Speculative Fiction), The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet, the Bone Clocks, & Utopia Avenue (all Historical Fiction with Minor Fantasy Elements)
If you want something more in line with YA, but with hard magic systems, consider “The Will of The Many”, by James Islington, or “Sufficiently Advanced Magic” by Andrew Rowe.
Not at all similar to “D&D,” the genre is LitRPG
edit: glurp glurp, motherfuckers
Hmm, okay. I never played D&D, but has friends who did.
Okay but what happens to his girlfriend’s poor cat???
I’m interested in checking these books out, but I’m a big weenie who can’t handle anything bad happening to innocent animals. And I’m not exactly mentally stable lately – lol – so I’m currently trying to avoid anything like that that could send me spiraling. (I know it sounds ridiculous and I’m working on getting help, I promise lol)
So, uh… Can anyone tell me if there’s any bad stuff happening to any animals (like the aforementioned kitty???) in these books? 😅
I really enjoyed DCC and it’s a pretty fun ride but honestly from what your saying I’d suggest you avoid it for a while. It’s fun but it’s also bloody and full of violence. It starts out with killing 99% of humanity and everybody in it is dealing with some heavy PTSD and it’s hopeful and people pull together but it’s still a tragedy.
It's a fairly early spoiler, but still a spoiler
The cat goes into the dungeon with him, and is initially treated as a pet. Pretty quickly, though, the cat gets an upgrade that turns her into her own character, and they become something of an iconic duo.
Also, I don’t know that I’d necessarily call it sci-fi, maybe more fantasy with… well. it’s complicated. In any case, I enjoyed it, and the rest of the series and highly recommend it.
It’s extremely dark. If you’re not in a good place mentally, avoid.
Family and party members kill each other, frequently. So read between the lines about the “pets” and animals, and that provides the dark context.
The cat becomes his constant companion, as far as I know through the whole series.
She becomes the actual protagonist of the book leaving Carl in his rightful spot. Cleaning litterboxes.
(jk. kinda.)
The cat goes in to the dungeon with him and is gifted with sentience immediately, becoming the protagonist’s sassy partner. It’s cheesey fun.
As others have pointed out, the book has a lot of over the top violence and death, so you might want to stay away. On the other hand, though, the author is far more into gore and comic book ultra violence than cruelty. Many people find Princess Donut – the cat annoying – but by book five no great harm has befallen her or any of the other protagonists.
To quote the book #5:
Tap for spoiler
”It’s going to get worse before it gets better. We are going to lose more friends. We’re going to have to do some pretty horrible things just to survive…”
Book 5 is just scratching the surface, but the tones get worse, not better, at 5 you should understand this about the story.
To say it’s not cruel, is so weird, and a few of the nonmain protagonists are gone, they don’t stay the same from book to book.
To quote Dinnamin
”if I don’t like their voice, I kill them off”.
I totally hear you. But the reason I disagree is that I think writers have a choice in how a death is supposed to strike the audience, and Dinniman is like a D&D GM who acts a lot tougher than he is.
George R.R. Martin is the real deal: he’s a ruthless writer of huge stakes: Ned Stark’s death is designed to be as distressing as possible. It’s intended to leave the reader with the devestated feeling that the world is highly unjust; that the more honorable the character, the more danger they’re in; that the reader should be in a constant state of concern that the characters they care about could at any moment not only die, but – more importantly for fiction imo – be rendered meaningless. He is disgraced in death, and it’s deeply painful for the reader.
Conversely, Matt Dinniman is, imo, basically a softy. When good characters die, they leave a mark. Their friends mourn; they are honored and avenged; their lives leave indelible marks on the trajectory of the story. It’s sad, but it’s very sweet sorrow.
That might change in the later books, but so far, Dinniman has been very gentle on readers when it counts.
From what I’ve read about þe books, þe cat eats a magic cat treat and gains þe ability to speak (I assume it gets smarter, too) and becomes a companion. It gets its own pet eventually, too.
I haven’t read þem. I can’t answer your question about how animals are treated in þe books, but from þe descriptions it seems fairly YA FWIW.
For something with a similar premise, see: https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/72050/discount-dan Focused on a backrooms dungeon instead of a space dungeon, but seems like similar vibes.
DCC is Fantasy, not science fiction.
I think there’s a spectrum, with overtly magic based fantasy at one end and hard SF (where the science is grounded in our current understanding) at the other. I don’t see there’s any way to draw a rigid line. I’d put this one somewhere around the center, maybe a bit towards fantasy on the spectrum.
There’s a reason that all of the major SF awards include fantasy. It’s just too hard to draw the line between them.
Yes I covered that in another comment, but it’s more on the fantasy side of the spectrum than science fiction.
The rewards are clumped together, because separate there isn’t enough to warrant the spectacle or the “celebration”. They did try separating them, didn’t last long before they combined them again. It’s why they are separate categories and don’t compete against each other in that sense. It’s not the best sci-fi and fantasy book. There’s one of each.
The Locus awards have separate categories, but the Hugo awards do not, just best novel.
All the “magic” is technology though.
So? Nothing about it is realistic, science fictions requires a basis of reality, it’s supposed to be something you can see your world in or part of the galaxy. Along those lines.
Hard science fiction is when it tries to fit into our current physics and accepted notions.
Edit: It’s not more science fiction than Star Wars and Star Trek, and both of those are considered “science fantasy”, I don’t think it reaches even that level. It’s fully in fantasy, don’t let the “earth” and “human” aspects conflate it.
In other hobbies they call people like you gatekeepers.
For providing information to people who may not know better?
The fact that you’re not hearing the condescension in your own comments is a real big red flag.
Just because you don’t like an answer or the informations someone is providing doesn’t mean that person is being condescending. I can’t defend my point? These are the takes by authors like Asimov and Pratchett, they’re the ones that created and defined these genres.
DCC and Star Trek are no less science fiction than a time travel story or one that relies on time travel, faster than light travel, races of aliens that can change their shape, or humans that can change their gender at will.
I’m story you think you have drawn the one true line, but it speaks to a flaw in your character not a flaw in others.
They’re writers not gods. Prachett was best friends with a rapist.
Sorry but to most people star wars is scifi. I appreciate that you’re correct, but words only have so much value as their ability to be understood, so sometimes wrong words are right.
No, it’s distinctly fantasy because of the force. It’s not even up for debate, the genre “science fantasy” was essentially made for Star Wars/Trek because they’re fantasy, but had so many parts of science fiction along with it.
If “most people” are flat earthers, that doesn’t suddenly make them correct.
As you said, word have meaning, but they ALSO evolve over time to accommodate new ideas, as well as local dialects that bleed out in common vernacular.
And that’s great, but outside of the sci-fi fantasy niche people do not refer to anything with a space ship as science fantasy. Pop-Culturally space ships and lasers is sci-fi.
Maybe because they don’t know better…?
If someone is gonna keep using the word wrong and never get told it’s wrong, how are they supposed to know?
This isn’t even a nerd only or a niche thing.
The MCU isn’t suddenly science fiction because one person has a space ship, what kind of logic is that?
Yes, the distinctions between sci-fi, science fantasy, epic fantasy, etc are lost on a lot of people. I can appreciate that posts about DCC are not particularly relevant to the /c/sciencefiction community. I think that some movies in the MCU are explicitly categorized as science fiction on platforms like IMDB and Netflix, for example Guardians of the Galaxy or Thor: Ragnarok. The rigid definition of sci-fi that people use in the literary world are often ignored at the scope of mass appeal.
