- cross-posted to:
- techtakes@awful.systems
- cross-posted to:
- techtakes@awful.systems
A talk in three parts, building towards a vision for a sovereign desktop in 2026 (and a look back).
- Loved. In 2003, together with Eva Brucherseifer, Jan’s company relevantive ran the first large-scale usability study of the Linux desktop on behalf of decision-makers considering migration. KDE 3.1 on SuSE was tested by 60 office workers with no prior Linux experience; 87% enjoyed working with it, 80% estimated they could reach professional competence within a week. The Linux desktop wasn’t a usability disaster — but realising its potential required deliberate configuration, honest naming, and treating migration as a human-resources problem, not a technical one. The findings shaped a decade of OpenUsability work inside KDE. They are, awkwardly, almost entirely still applicable. We’ll look at what stuck, what didn’t, and why “lovable” — not merely “usable” — is the bar today, and why getting it right cuts the cost and risk of every migration discussion that follows.
- AI-native. A desktop that loves you back has to know you. Personal AI has crossed the threshold where the desktop itself can be compiled per user, per device, per moment, from a small portable model of the user — what we are sketching as Kadai: an encrypted, vendor-agnostic personal kernel from which Plasma assembles each Activity. Plasma is uniquely well-fit for this — Activities, Plasmoids, the existing scripting surface — but a handful of upstream changes (declarative reconciliation, per-widget capabilities, richer Activity metadata) would turn KDE into the first shell that treats AI as infrastructure rather than as a chat box bolted to the side.
- Sovereign. Once a user owns their model and their tools, the same question returns at institutional scale. EU institutions, member countries, and a long tail of organisations are openly asking what a credible, non-colonialising desktop stack looks like. No project carries this alone — a sovereign desktop is an ecosystem question. KDE is uniquely positioned as the shell, the integration layer, the experience; but filesharing belongs with Nextcloud, the browser with Firefox, the office suite with … The last third of the talk is about what KDE’s partnership surface could look like — outward, to industry and public administration, and sideways, to the allied open-source projects that already do the rest of the work better than anyone could redo it. Who owns that surface, where it lives, what KDE e.V. would need, what not to build. Sovereignty, from this angle, is just lovability and AI-ownership scaled up to the organisation: the user not owned by a vendor, the institution not owned by a foreign supplier — and the stack not owned by anyone, because the right partners hold the right pieces.
This talk is an invitation — from peple with a long arc inside this community — to take a serious swing at the question the 2003 study posed and never quite resolved: what would it take for KDE to be the desktop people actively choose, not just the one some of us settle for? Attendees will leave with: a concrete proposal (KaDAi) to react to or tear apart, a clear set of asks the project could direct at Plasma maintainers, and the framing for a sovereignty conversation that KDE is uniquely positioned to lead.
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My understanding is that this is just a sort of open forum/presentation on this as an idea. That being said, it’s a stupid-ass idea.
I don’t want my computer to “love me back” it’s a fucking machine that I built to do my work on and play my games on. I am the only form of agency I want having access to it.
If I ever want an AI agent running all the time in the background doing shit for me, I’ll fucking install and configure one myself! I want my OS to be an OS, not some “smart”, interactive fake person that will hallucinate random Bash commands, fuck my partitions up randomly, and bork my system.
I alone am the only thing that I want destroying my system, if that’s going to happen, it will happen by my own hands, my own shitty commands, my own piss-poor scripts.
This AI delusion and hype cycle is more infuriating than the NFT craze, and that’s really saying something.
This is probably, the only time, I read something KDE related, and think its worded by a fassist psychotic fake-country’s spoke person.
KDE saw the “funding” Omarchy is getting and said “we want in on that”.
Interesting… Look i do love KDE and corporate opensource wise SuSE is great so I’m willing to hear out some of this. Some of the SuSE MCP server for Linux subsystems is neat. Active write mode? Hell no, that consistently seems like a stupid idea. Like I’m in the immutable Linux crowd. I want everything as auditable, lintable, testable, reproducible, hell maybe formally verified so yeah stochastic system administration is antithetical to anything I want.
That said read mode. That is more interesting. LLMs for creating human able readable summeries of data or semantic search that’s cool. And focusing on local AI systems makes it something that isn’t just a survelliance trap
This is what it looks like when someone falls into an AI k-hole. I’ve seen it happen to friends of mine. They get lost down deep in Claude’s anus and start sending me completely fucking nonsensical ideas at odd hours of the day.
Looks like it is KDE’s turn. I doubt many people here are old enough to remember the shitshow that KDE 4.0 was… this made me think of that.
Oof, I do think there’s less-hyped parts of the AI bubble that can add value.
For example, so-called “embedding models” need fairly little in terms of resources and allow you to implement semantic search across text files and theoretically also images (don’t know how cheap the latter is), so that you can search for “cake” and it’ll still find your pie recipe or whatever.
I do think this will come, it’s only a matter of time.But the description in the talk just does not sound like that. Users have never liked unpredictability in their desktop. Using a new technology to do it, is not going to change that.
So, at best I see this being useful, if the unpredictability is confined to a single screen/menu/program/whatever, but that completely undermines their whole concept of KDE being flexible, so that everything can be changed by the AI.I guess, one would need to watch the talk to see what they actually have in mind. They do seem to be aware that they’re proposing a moonshot idea, which is meant as inspiration, not as concrete goal. But yeah, really not sure even just the direction is what users want…
AI-native. A desktop that loves you back has to know you. Personal AI has crossed the threshold where the desktop itself can be compiled per user, per device, per moment
Fucking… what?
So many things with this statement.
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We fuckin’ our desktops now? Or they saying it needs to know you which is disturbing in itself
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AI can’t even give the same output twice. I guess we’re just building the bugs straight in, huh?
I use Gentoo, almost everything is compiled just for me.
No issues there.
AI in my desktop? Miss me with that shit.
Luckily, I use Gentoo.
I use Gentoo, almost everything is compiled just for me.
No issues there.
The greatest lie in the universe.
AI-native
Makes me gag and sounds like slop only an AI could come up with. As a KDE user I hate this.
Pretty sure that submitted for the discussion was AI-drafted too
It is, yeah.
Who the hell wants “a desktop that loves them back”? Who even loves their desktop in that way? I guess people who build KDE.
As to the metaphysics of a computer program feeling emotions or having any awareness of its user, we could go down a whole Lacanian rabbit hole in a sardine can. I’m just going to tap the sign that says “it’s not even intelligence”.
I guess we’re just building the bugs straight in
That’s what they say toward the end of that bullet point, yeah. “AI as infrastructure”, which is a phrase that should send shivers down anyone’s spine.
KDE AI Waifu Edition ™
A desktop that loves you back has to know you.
We fuckin’ our desktops now?
I don’t think that this is “know” in the Biblical sense of the word. :-)
Yeah, this all sounds super fucked up. I suppose we shouldn’t have expected the KDE project to be sceptical of a new technology, they always went right in and published before it was quite ready and they were never the type to choose maintainability over additional features.
I can’t believe I’m actually commending the Gnome project, but they seem to have the right idea when it comes to AI.
It’s just a talk on a community meetup. It’s well-possible that nothing at all comes out of this. It’s not suddenly the strategic goal of the whole KDE community…
It sounds useful to me. But who cares? This is KDE we’re talking about! It’ll be a subsystem you can disable at will just like everything else in KDE.
Needs to be something that must ebay enabled first. I hate opt out technology.
That type of thing is typically a decision made by your distro. For example, since most people don’t have the necessary hardware to use decent models, I’d imagine that the AI packages wouldn’t be installed by default.
Only people that manually install the packages will get the AI features.
Pretty sure we can say that won’t be the case.
If you read the discussion, it’s about KDE being “Ai-native” and treating it as “infrastructure”. It literally even talks about how they don’t want it to be a “bolt-on chatbox”. They’re discussing making AI the desktop.
It is a “discussion”, but it seems more like prepping the community for something they already decided and want.
Meh. They said the same thing about integrating semantic search into KDE. Yet I have turned that indexing off since forever and it never really changed much.
I guess I spent a lot of time tagging my files back in the day so I could find them better, haha. What a huge ass waste of time!
AI is so vastly superior for searching than all previous efforts combined, it feels like renaming, tagging, etc are just pointless tedium.
I care because I don’t want security vulnerabilities introduced into my desktop, and because there are other things they could be working on…
It’s a community of mostly volunteers. Volunteers work on what they want to work on. Telling them to not do that, would not mean they’d pick something else to work on…
If they want to make agentic bullshit to appease corporate investors, then they should find something else to work on.
AI can have vulnerabilities but so far nearly all of them have been related to fully automated systems. As in, you give a model the power to reach out to the Internet or read/write files anywhere it wants (i.e. break out of the sandbox), then you tell it to perform some long-running or infinite task like, “when a file shows up in this place, read it, then perform actions based on what was in the file.”
I believe we all call that, “a recipe for disaster” (LOL). That’s not what they are talking about when integrating AI into KDE.
There’s not really any inherent vulnerability in letting the user spin up a model to perform a task. Also, if it works like development IDEs, the end user needs to accept any changes the model is trying to make before anything at all happens.
Having said that, this is very new tech. It really could have some unforeseen vulnerabilities. However, all new tech has that problem. Any time you add a new feature to anything there’s always the chance of creating a vulnerability.
Burying our collective heads in the sand because we’re afraid of the potential for a vulnerability seems a bit weak to me. We already know how not to implement things! Just look at whatever Microsoft is doing and don’t do that! 😁
Local AI isn’t like Big AI! I mean, think about it: How much resources is ollama getting on your local PC/GPU compared to what say, OpenAI gives its models? The potential for vastly problematic issues is so, so much higher on Big AI infrastructure.
BTW: Ollama unloads any running models after five minutes of inactivity by default. It’s kind of annoying (to me) because it can take like 3-30s to reload the model (depending on how big it is) but for something like a KDE integration, I’d imagine they’d be using tiny models (e.g. models meant for embedding) that load and unload in just a few seconds. Especially for RAG/search functionality.
so far nearly all of them have been related to fully automated systems
They’re not.
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Really good thread on Mastodon discussing this.
KDE blocked David Gerard on Mastodon for that thread btw.
Man, I feel like I need to educate people how open-source works.
Regarding them ‘accepting’ this talk. It’s a community. The community members organizing the conference are not going to block the community members that want to discuss this topic, not unless there’s a huge problem with scheduling/rooms/whatever.
Whether the talk is truly accepted, that will be decided by whether people attend it or not.
Whether the idea is accepted, that’s still on a whole 'nother page.Given that Nate Graham and Harald Sitter are talking about KDE Linux at the same timeslot in the other room (and that both talks happen during lunch), I don’t imagine too many people will attend.
AI-native.
Hah! Get with the program, KDE. Emacs has had ELIZA since 1985.
$ emacs M-x doctor RET
I am the psychotherapist. Please, describe your problems. Each time you are finished talking, type RET twice.Fork when?
KDE has been going into a weird (and sometimes annoying) direction recently. This explains why.
and with recently you probably mean the last decade and a half probably
If KDE starts expressing feelings of love for its users, what else could it do? Might it get envious of Vim if its user spends too much time just editing text? Will it get into a fight with the web browser over memory resources? If it feels like its love is unrequited will it pin forlorn pieces of melancholic poetry to the task bar? If it’s a multi-user system will it like some of its users better than others? Will the window manager get dissatisfied with its repetitive job and decide that it wants to try a new career as a compiler? The possibilities are endless in the glorious AI future.
I am not getting this at all. Is KDE going the corpo route or are they talking about local, foss and open weights model, which people can run on their own and do things from them out of their own choice? Please can someone tell me what’s going on.
KDE could source their own training data, train their own models, add their own post-training behaviors, and release the weights under their same open source license, and people would still hate it, even if it was locally run and doesn’t go online at all.
Let the old heads be stubborn and fork it and stick to their human slop desktop environment.
AI that integrates into your desktop is useful. Don’t freak out about it because it’s all total shit slop in Windows. This is KDE!
Myself, I think it would be really nice to be able to whip out a prompt in Dolphin, then tell it to,
find all the pictures of fish in this directory and rename the filename to reflect the species of fish.Having local AI search for my files integrated as a KIO worker that I can whip out in open/save dialogs would be amazing.
Since it’s KDE, we can be certain that it won’t require using Big AI providers. We’ll be able to hook it up to ollama (or similar), using whatever TF models we want.
That’s nice for you. I don’t want any AI on my hardware.
Surely you’re shitposting?
