I made a post about the Europeans who are being deported from Germany for being anti-genocide. https://lemmy.ml/post/28407953
A user repeated the now many times debunked lie that these victims facing deportation were “violent racist rioters”. Blatant German propaganda, made up to smear opposition to the genocide in Palestine. Which Germany supplies 30% of the weapons for.
After calling them, and a few other users out for repeating the same lie, the moderators banned me.
You are fighting a strawman, no one is arguing “Israel = good”
The point is that killing civilians is bad, even if done by people fighting facist Israel
That religious fundamentalism is bad, even if done by people fighting facist Israel
You are wrongfully argumenting that criticizing warcrimes on one side amounts to supporting warcrimes of the other side.
You can be against starving of civilians, against genocide, against shooting civilians, against holding civilians hostage, against religious fundamentalism because those things are bad tools from an ethical point of view, no matter who uses those tools.
You are saying those tools are only bad, if israel use them, not when Hama’s uses them.
You are saying everyone who is against killing civilians IN GENERAL is a nazi
You are exactly proving my point.
If you keep someone locked in your unlit pantry for 50 years, feeding them nothing but piss and shit, and suddenly they break out and start trying to shank people, it’s not very brave or intellectual to suddenly come out as “one who is against ALL knife fights and stabbing in general”
If I’ve been protesting against keeping someone locked up in an unlit pantry for years and arguing humans should be treated humanly and neither tortured nor killed, and then they break out and start killing civilians regardless if they were part of the oppressors or not, it is only logical I say this is, while understandable, still not the right thing to do.
You’re completely glossing over the power imbalance in this hypothetical. You cannot compare violence of the oppressor with violence of the oppressor as if they exist in the same moral plane. You liken Hamas’ resistance to systematic oppression, but how can Hamas systematically oppress when they have no weapons, food, water, or power? Pretty easy to say “Akshually, i think both sides need to play by the same rules” when one side has an inordinate power advantage over the other side. You’re doing everything in your power to condemn the violence carried out by the oppressed side so that you can ignore the inherent violence of the system that created this genocide.
Nah man, im protesting against Israelis ocupation on the streets, I’m demanding of my government that they stop supplying them weapons and start sanctioning them, I condemn my my government for not carrying out the orders by the international court… I am certainly not ignoring the violence of the oppressive system.
But there are red lines, and murdering civilians is one of them, no matter what others did to you.
“No one is arguing Israel good, but anyone fighting against them is bad”.
Here a short clip. You are the lady on the left https://youtu.be/GtivLcDAHz0
C’mon, you seem like someone arguing for something you really believe in.
I literally said I am supporting the protests by going there.
You use quotation marks as if you were quoting something I said, which I clearly didn’t.
Why this strawman?
Supporting Palestine means supporting Palestine. Not this wishy washy both sides BS.
If you do not support Palestinians fighting back against their colonial genocidal oppressors then you do not support them. Especially when you go around denouncing people online for it.
Hamas exists because Palestinians have exhausted every other possible peaceful method of resistance. Even Hamas did a peaceful march in 2017 and Israel shot medical workers there.
There is a difference in supporting the fight for freedom and supporting everything an organization stands for.
I think its good the USA fought the Nazis in WW2 - doesn’t mean I can’t criticize their capitalist imperialistic view of the world.
I think its good Palestinians fight oppressive Israel, doesn’t mean I can’t criticize hamas fundamentalist religious view of the world.
I think its good USA fought facist Japan in ww2, doesn’t mean I can’t criticize them for the means by which they did it, like dropping nuclear bombs mainly killing civilians
I think its good Palestinians fight against facist Israel, doesn’t mean I can’t criticize them for the means by which they do it, like shooting down a music festival, mainly killing civilians.
Having the luxus/privilege of not being involved directly in the matter means you have the duty to criticize warcrimes not because of who commits them, but because they are warcrimes.
Having ethics means you make arguments based on actions, not by who does the actions (argumentum at hominem)
This does not amount to “wishy washy both sides” (false balance). One side is clearly worse, one side is clearly the systematic oppressor, one side is clearly more to blame. This just doesn’t mean the other side can’t be criticized at all, and clearly not “anyone measuring both by the same standards is a Nazi”
The word “support” does not mean “agree with all their stances”. Step one is Palestinian liberation. After that comes the rest
Hamas committed a targeted raid against Israeli military bases.
The music festival meme is ridiculous because many murdered there were killed by Israeli apache helicopters as can be seen from the cars with holes in their roofs.
And it was not the target. It was not even supposed to be there. There was armed soldiers in the festival as well. And many there were active IDF members as it was next to a military base.
The German government is sending weapons to a colonial Apartheid starving 2 million people in a concentration camp. You should learn what the Holocaust was about.
Arguing that okt 7 didn’t target civilians?
Making up another strawman by arguing against the German government which I alread y said I criticize as if it were my position?
I retract my point that you seem to argue for something you believe in…
Have a nice day sir
P.S: the holocaust was about a deeply rooted antisemitism and an ideology making Jews the scapegoat for all problems in facist Germany, taking their property to give it to loyal Nazis while proclaiming the terrorising and killing of said scapegoats, the internal enemy, would benefit society. It was neither about invading a Jewish country to make territorial gains nor about ending a Jewish liberation movement.
No with 33% military casualty rate, more than 95% counting IDF reservists, and less than 3% child casualties, Hamas target was clearly not civilians. If you want to know what targeting civilians looks like, look at Israel and the German government supporting them.
And you miss info about the Holocaust because Nazi Germans did kick out Jews from Poland and occupied their homes.
You are in luck. Here’s an Israeli to teach you about October 7, The Holocaust and the Warsaw Ghetto uprising all at once: https://youtu.be/Pt_1k7nSv1M