It’s a good stance to take, politically, (and, obviously, morally) because the opposition can either oppose your point and be scumbags and hated by the general public, or agree with the point you made.
Good for him, hope he wins. Presumably it is him or the russians?
It’s him or the Israelis.
Melenchon seems like a good shot. I don’t remember a good French president in my entire life. They all were pretty forgettable and sorry.
He’s just anti-west not anti-genocide unfortunately. Wholesale supports letting Putin kill more Ukrainians.
ETA: A Russian military plane landed in Israel. If that’s a sign of things to come and Russia and Israel start cooperating, you bet Melenchon will weaken his rhetoric on Palestine.
Lol he can’t decide to soften on Palestine cause he’s not the one deciding on the platform. This question is very important within the movement.
Melenchon is a Russian puppet because I said so, actually being anti-genocide makes him just as bad as the pro-genocide status quo because uh he’s actually gonna become a pro-genocide puppet in the future trust.
He’s already supporting one genocide (Ukrainians) and says if China wants to do another (kill the people of Taiwan to take over the island), it’s their own business.
Pretending to be anti-genocide the one time the genocide is perpetrated by his masters’ enemies doesn’t make him anti-genocide. Makes him a hypocrite.
I’m not happy about the war in Ukraine, but it’s a war, not a genocide. You need to be serious when discussing topics like this, especially when we have the example of genocides happening right now, livestreamed for all of us to see.
Great now Chinese puppet Melenchon’s China wants to kill the people of Taiwan now, they totally have for decades declared for an upcoming genocide and a forever military invasion and not diplomatic engagement, says volumes how you keep devolving into completely absurd unsubstantiated statements, I would respond to any claims you made if you actually provided any credible sources for it.
He has literally said that if/when China invades, France will not invade because it’s China’s right to do so.
A non-aligned and non-interventionist foreign policy, oh the shock and horror, Melenchon emphasised that China doesn’t want to and will not invade Taiwan and that France interfering in a UN unrecognised domestic matter would be bad for France which does not want more wars and does not have the resources for the other side of the world or being the police of the world.
Anways I was also unable to find any expression of intent by China or toleration by Melenchon of genocide in Taiwan, not like it makes any sense in any scenario whatsoever given peaceful reunification is the current goal and escalation into war only benefits the US.
Ukraine
West
Even in their hypotheticals they can’t pretend one of the Slavic countries is part of the colloquial “West”
Is supported by most western countries in their defense against Russia.
He wants that to stop and for Russia to win.
their defense against Russia
Not:
their vanguard post in attacking Russia
Bigger deal is withdrawing from NATO. Fearmongering of extreme right, is on their anti-NATO platforms. The center right (CDU in Germany) leads the same “practical” anti-immigrant views just with pure US energy/global destruction subservience.
escort citizen flottilas
That’s a very weird choice in a scenario where you have a state at your hand that can escort it’s own aid shipments at much higher scale.
This smells like he wants to weasel out, pointing at some irrelevant nominal change that Israel did which flipped the conditional “if necessary” false or something like that
I guess it’s a political way to say France will use its military to deliver aid to Gaza militarily without saying he will pay for it.
In hindsight this might look weaksauce but for now I’ll take it. I’m willing to give some leeway to people pushing the overton window until it is pushed.
Yeah. He said he was willing to point guns at the entity.
That’s the kind of incrementalism I can get behind.
You’re right, I recant. I doubted if he was willing to do that but OP swayed me.
Melenchon is not saying “I’ll help Gaza” (my argument was that he could’ve done so in easier ways if he really wanted to)
…but “I protect my citizens even if they want to help Gaza”. Weaker morally, but doesn’t come across as an evil trick anymore (but as a good trick)
without saying he will pay for [the aid]
If it’s about political expediency of signalling cost aversion is aid the big cost factor?
I would assume the expensive part of escorting aid is the cost of the military deployment, no?
I get your point about the Overton window, but I also see a flipside to it: the risk is sheepdogging revolutionary sentiment into the liberal electoral system.
The overton window becomes a carve out in the liberal accepted framework (even though it stays inconsequential in terms of action) which could be a way of releasing tension in the rebellious climate of french politics right now
If it’s about political expediency of signalling cost aversion is aid the big cost factor?
One is about enforcing the safety of French people doing what they want. The other is about a more offensive stance. This is much easier to sell
The overton window becomes a carve out in the liberal accepted framework (even though it stays inconsequential in terms of action) which could be a way of releasing tension in the rebellious climate of french politics right now
I think it’s possible to keep moving the overton window. We see more and more people who joined meekly now supporting the Palestinian resistance. The question is whether those who initially moved the window will move along with it, or remain their Zionist position e.g. Norman Finkelstein.
One is about enforcing the safety of French people doing what they want. The other is about a more offensive stance. This is much easier to sell
You’re absolutely right — Fair point. The perspective of “diplomacy” does change things — I hadn’t thought of that.
Signals less Palestinian Solidarity and more nationalism, then though. But still a net helpful notion I agree. Albeit it weaker than “I’ll bring food to Gaza and aim at Israelis if I have to.”
Feels like a little late to the party to me.
I believe he’s a socdem type, but it’s great to see that the people of France have shown such resistance and organization that the socdems are willing to take positions like this publicly in order to retain popularity
Holy shit had a dream the other day that France was the first EU country to militarily support resistance to Israel’s genocide and I don’t even know shit about EU politics. Weird!
Wonder if Spain would join them in escorting the flotilla?
It pretty much has to be France, or maybe the UK. Only a nuclear power can stand up to another nuclear power.
I think any NATO member could choose to do the same. It’s Israel that has everything to lose.
zionists have too much of a stranglehold on British politics for that ever to happen.
What would be better is that countries come together to refuse to economically trade with them, eventually resulting in a blockade so no goods can get to them, forcing them to fold as South Africa did.
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How do French people feel about him?
Not great, popularity in the left is kindof ok, but overall he’s predicted to loose the 2snd stage of the vote on presidence. Media were very harsh on him for years so he’s seen like an ogre now by some. And his political position are mostly clear with less bullshit than lots… So it generates lots more hostility than the classic “common soc-dem politician” you forget after a few month because they have no stand position (he don’t want nuclear which is popular in france, he had some questionnable takes to say the least on jews at some points, he’s not hard against Putin, etc.).
Clearly a questionnable candidate, but at least he’s less corrupted, stupid, and replacable than the others.
Right now there’s a Mamdani style media blitz against him so it’s pretty divided. If you open any TV channel or radio station right now you’ll probably hear him being accused of all manners of devilry, most of it imaginary. As a result, older generations hate him kind of irrationally, while he’s decently popular among younger folks.
IIRC pretty divided, but he is an old darling of the left. He is looked at romantically.
Do it!
He won’t. The guy is a millionaire populist and at best he’ll do some token actions for publicity with zero effect and at worst he’ll fuck up so hard that he’ll have to do a 180 (like Mitterand).
Just for the readers out there : the way he’s a “millionaire” is by owning his apartment in Paris.
Median French adult’s net worth is a bit over 100k. He’s got that much in cash in addition to his 1.2 million euro apartment and his country home.
Oh my god 100K in savings, an apartment in Paris and a 170K country home. We’re deep in oligarch territory here.
His priority is literaly to pass a law for citizens to be able to vote to take the president and other elected officials out of office.
And also fully withdraw France from NATO. Even DeGaulle didn’t have the gall to do something that stupid.
That, along with his stance on Ukraine / Russian sanctions / common EU defense are the reasons I find him a frustrating and problematic candidate - I find his stances on those matters woefully myopic and dismayingly naive. But he is 100% on point within the realm of domestic issues. The fact that he largely shares his international geopolitical stances with Le Pen should be ringing alarm bells in the heads of far more French voters than it seems to be.
You’re probably right
This guy’s gonna be targeted for sure, I hope he doesn’t get bopped
First the media is going to smear him, then they will try to go after him legally, then he will be shouted at and ganged up on in the European Council, and if none of that works, France will be attacked financially and the ECB will let it happen.
and if none of that works, France will be attacked financially and the ECB will let it happen.
This is an underrated point. France has a rope around its neck that the EU can tighten or loosen at will: the Euro. No country in Europe will be able to have sovereign control over its own policies as long as a foreign entity controls their currency. Especially a country as indebted as France is extremely vulnerable to financial suffocation by the ECB.
Yes, but I think the causal link is a bit more subtle. The ECB can simply signal that it doesn’t consider France financially sound and then sit back instead of acting as lender of last resort while the markets stop refinancing France’s debt. Basically, what happened to Greece.
He already is, some candidates have been meddled with during the last elections.
Now this is something I can get behind. Vive la France.
I wish it were credible
His phrasing is a pretty clear indication that he’s not going to do anything.
🤘
