Yup, gotta make sure the money stays here.
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The reärmament drive is scary, we need to see more popular pushback against this.
It might be scary, but not rearming may be scarier. If we’ve seen anything in recent history, it’s that two large countries run by leaders who are bullies care little for what you or I or anyone else wants.
Why? Everyone else is doing it, and as they say, si vis pacem para bellum.
Thanks for quoting one of the most brutal and violent empires known for oppression and slavery on how to achieve peace.
The thought actually comes from Plato, the Latin is incidental because most people who could write in Europe in the past few millennia did so in Latin so most old adages survived in Latin.
That said, do you have an argument against the substance of what I said other than the language?
Any time Europeans and Americans got a lot of weapons to “defend themselves” they suddenly found a great place in the Middle-East to defend themselves onto a few years later
So does Russia and China. Yeah, it would be a nicer world if we all wouldn’t start wars and stuff, but as you can see in the Russian invasion of Ukraine, that is not the case. Europe is currently militarily threatened by the US and Russia, so we either capitulate or do something about it.
By your logic though, Russia should disarm, and the only countries that could be trusted with weapons in the region are Ukraine, Poland and the Baltics, as IIRC they never had significant colonies, right? Zelensky had a proposal for Ukrainian peacekeepers across Europe, would you support that together with a demilitarized Russia?
Russia slightly but moreso in Africa. China does not so far. Ukraine is a poor example as Ukraine tried to join NATO against the promises NATO made with Russia.
Russia will not attack the EU as the EU has nukes. The only use for giant armies these days is to do imperialism with. China was cutting down on their army until the US went on a rampage again.
Zelensky had a proposal for Ukrainian peacekeepers across Europe, would you support that together with a demilitarized Russia?
Sure as long as they only send foot soldiers and don’t do stupid stuff like placing missile launchers on Russia’s border. And they won’t rob Ukraine of their minerals in exchange.
Russia slightly but moreso in Africa.
Syria had Russian troops deployed, in the Middle East.
China does not so far.
They own 78 ports in Africa over 32 African ports.
Ukraine is a poor example as Ukraine tried to join NATO against the promises NATO made with Russia.
Ukraine asked for NATO after the Russian invasion, not before. All they wanted was EU trade agreements.
Russia will not attack the EU as the EU has nukes.
Russia is currently conducting a blatant and overt misinformation campaign aimed at toppling democrating governments all over the EU.
Ukraine is a poor example as Ukraine tried to join NATO against the promises NATO made with Russia.
Fuck off. No they didn’t, you piece of fascist shit.
Russia invaded, and then they said “We didn’t try to join NATO because we promised not to, and Russia would leave us alone. Russia didn’t keep up their end of the bargain.”
Don’t rewrite history.
fuit pax quae nationes europae arma ferebant antea?
That is not even correct Latin.
Google Translate is a helluva drug.
I don’t even get the point, there was no point in time of the history of Europe when its nations were not one of the major military powers of the world. So when was this beforetime when the “nations of Europe did not bear arms”? In the age of the Sumerian Empire?
Also, why don’t I see the original reply in the thread? I know my instance is defed’ed from grad and hexbear, but this was someone from ml, right?
It’s weird.
People have armed themselves throughout history, even if just to protect themselves from non-human predators.
As far as not seeing the original reply, I don’t know enough about how it all works. I just know I like it here better than the r-place.
People have armed themselves throughout history, even if just to protect themselves from non-human predators.
It doesn’t folow from this that we should give right-wing imperial governments a trillion euro from social programs to go fight Arabs and Africans.
You’ve got to analyse each situation. You can’t say, “There has been inequality throughout history, therefore we should cut taxes for the rich”. You can’t say, “There has been weapons throughout history, therefore we should cut social spending to give the UK a new aircraft carrier”
If all you have to offer is “weapons are bad,war is bad”, you need to think about the consequences of not re-arming. The world has relied on America to be the one that is heavily armed so that we can all sit here in Europe and pretend that we don’t need weapons and war is bad. We got to feel morally superior and peace loving but in reality we had the biggest kid in the playground on call whenever trouble showed it’s face.
It reminds me of a friend I used to know who told everyone he didn’t wear a watch because he didn’t need one. He spent all day asking everyone else what the time was. So he did need a watch, it just wasn’t on his wrist.
So when you have a country like Russia invading neighbours and threatening others with their weapons and you don’t have any, what is your solution?
Just to reiterate, I don’t like the fact that weapons are necessary but I will take the lesser of two evils because in one of them, I might not exist anymore.
This is a .ml user, chances are they are pro russia.
May be true, but still Putin is destroying America without have fired any gun
I get your point but it’s not like no guns have been fired
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I’m answering on faith that you are arguing a sincerely held belief.
It is exactly because Europe remembers what happens when you have an unchecked aggressive neighbour who is better armed than you that rearing is necessary. You seem to be victim blaming. “The more armed Europe is the more Europeans get killed.” Sounds like “we wouldn’t have to kill you if you’d just stop fighting for your survival.” Against enemies like nazi Germany or nazi Russia you don’t just let them take what they want because they will just keep taking until you have nothing left.
Now the threat IS Russia. It is the fact that you ask why I am bringing them into it that makes me think you either are Russian, are pro Russian, or are trolling me. Why do I bring them in to it? They invaded a country on the edge of the European Union and have shown no honour on the battlefield, committing war crimes. They have a desire to bring back the USSR and many of those countries are now members of the European Union. They have shown willingness to take what they want, and they want to bring back the USSR.
So more guns means more dead Europeans? Really. Sounds like an argument from Russia to encourage disarming their enemies, because more funds in Europe more likely means a stand off, or fewer dead Europeans and more dead Russians.
P.S. I didn’t say what the alternative is because it is bloody obvious. Obvious to me, to Ukraine, to the USA, to the world leaders, and to Russia, but not you.
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How did I come to that conclusion… “The demise of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.” Vladimir Putin
And this And this And this etc. etc. etc. Needless to say I am far from the lone conspiracy theorist your are trying to paint me as.
No I think they will be used to defend against things like this
Edit: Oh and since you seem to be deliberately avoiding acknowledging it. The alternative is a deeper Russian invasion of Europe.
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Most people in Eastern Europe think about the Soviet occupation as one of the greatest tragedies of modern history. I don’t know which world you live in where they weren’t an oppressive power.
They came raping and pillaging, they took people away in trains never to be seen again, and they ravaged our countries in more ways than one.
And to be honest, Russia is currently doing more than its share of power projection and destabilization in Africa and the Middle East.
“If you want peace, prepare for war.”
Quoting an expansionist empire proves my point.
