- cross-posted to:
- Germany
- cross-posted to:
- Germany
Thousands of people rallied in cities across Germany on Sunday to protest right-wing extremism and demand a ban on the Alternative for Germany (AfD) party.
The demonstrations were organized by the network Together Against the Right and other civil society groups.
In Berlin, protesters gathered at the Brandenburg Gate, with police estimating the crowd at around 4,000 by late afternoon, while organizers claimed approximately 7,500 participants. Around 2,500 demonstrators also took to the streets in Munich, with rallies announced in more than 60 cities nationwide.
Organizers urged political leaders to begin formal proceedings to outlaw the far-right AfD, Germany’s largest opposition party.
In a statement, they argued that the issue of banning the party should be seen not as a political decision, but as a legal matter.
“To clarify this, politicians must find the courage to file a motion for a ban,” it said.
The organizers are calling on the Bundestag and Bundesrat legislative bodies, as well as the new federal government under Chancellor Friedrich Merz, to initiate ban proceedings against the AfD before the Federal Constitutional Court.
[…]
The AfD is known for its anti-immigration, anti-Muslim, eurosceptic and nationalist rhetoric. The populist party has been a flashpoint in German political life for more than a decade. It has benefited in recent years by tapping into economic discontent and growing unease over refugees.
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To all of my European friends, please remember that AfD (and other similar groups) are merely a symptom, not the disease itself. You have to identify and address the root cause of why AfD has any meaningful support.
To keep using your metaphor, when you have a severe fever due to an infection, you usually want to treat the fever because although it’s a symptom it can hurt/kill you if left alone.
Having extremist/neo-nazis/fascist parties participate in the elections and maybe winning them (hello USA) makes it a lot more difficult to treat the root causes. The less space, means and influence they are given, the better.
This being said, I agree with you that once the dangerous symptom has been treated, we need to treat the root causes or the symptom is going to come back.
This is important.
Else a Afd2.0 would pop up over night, with many of their supporters angered.
Not really. The hurdles to banning a party in Germany is very steep, but once taken, all follow-on offsprings can be banned under the same ruling. As long as they share some of the same people or ideologies, they’d be out in no time; plus all funding would have been seized, making it all the harder to regroup and return.
Their supporters would still be there, that’s what we need to solve.
When Pablo Escobar’s cartel got taken down and he was killed, new better organised cartels popped up to take it’s place.
We need to fix Demand, not Supply
If the demand grows to over about 50% of the population there would be nothing to stop them.
Cartels don’t need to be recognized on a federal level to begin operations. A party is a different thing.
Fiar.
But as long as the demand is there parties will shift to align with the voters.
And while that is good I still see the problem in it. Political mobilisation today mostly takes place online and the ideology underpinning AfD, and other parties like them, aren’t going away because the party is banned. Rather, now the story (to the followers) will be that the German establishment is undemocratic and that society is against them. And far-right leaders can - sadly kind of rightfully… - claim that they represent the most popular party, that the government is scared of them, and that they represent the “silent majority”.
Now, it’s not easy because you can’t just let them exist forever either, but if a ban is the main measure the root problem just won’t be adressed. Romania banned Georgescu and now they’ll probably get Simion instead…
And to be clear the true root problem, in my opinion, is the social media misinformation campaigns pushed by China, Russia, and, sadly, USA.
And what do you think that is? So far I blame algorithmic/targeted social media that leads to echo chambers and lowering living standards because of rising cost of living and prices without salaries keeping up.
But I’m also getting the impression that no one that can actually do anything about it is aware or cares enough to act so we are fucked either way.
There’s definitely education (or lack there of) and propaganda, but the main issue is wealth inequality in this neo liberal, capitalist world
Wages have stagnated and everything is much more expensive. The quality of life of the majority of the population is massively worse than before. Yes we have cool gadgets and better healthcare due to technological advancements but the crux of the matter is that exploitation is tru the roof. People work 2 and 3 jobs and can’t make ends meet. Meanwhile billionaires get richer and richer in increasing pace.
Public services get cut, people get ask to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and they look for someone to blame and are told to look down (to immigrants) instead of up (to the ultra rich).
Disclaimer: Not European, so this is my perception about the similar rise in the US.
Part of it is economics, and the general decline of (personal) prosperity. People can’t afford the things needed for a comfortable life. That includes housing, heat, food, and entertainment.
Part of it is definitely propaganda. No matter what the issue is, you can find countless sources pointing to whatever enemy you might think of. And people flock to it, choosing their own echo chambers. Side note: Lemmy is very much part of this, although typically in the opposite direction than what boosts AfD.
But I think the biggest factor is education, particularly in critical thinking. A lot of these movements promise an easy explanation and an easy fix. Real solutions never are. It takes a lot more effort to truly examine their claims, and it always comes with real downsides that people don’t want. There also isn’t a moment after any policy changes where people evaluate the results, and reevaluate the plan to figure out how to better get to their goals.
Mainly intentional disinformation about russia’s war in Ukraine and intentional disinformation regarding immigration.
People think because there are more darker skinned people arround it’s the reason their life is getting worse. (While actually it’s increased inequality)
TL,DR: Facebook, Twitter, Instagram.
People are largely in favor of a ban. German intelligence officially labels afd a nazi party. Fucking do it already.
Why did Germany suspend labelling afd extremist
Tactical move in the legal proceedings to speed up the process
… This does not mean that the Office for the Protection of the Constitution is deviating from its assessment of the AfD, but only that it is keeping quiet about it publicly. … This is a tactical procedural move. The AfD can now no longer claim that the court has forbidden the secret service from reporting on the upgrade …
In addition, the [legal] proceedings could now be accelerated …
Because they sued, and until the case is sorted, the BfV may not continue the labeling.
No. The BfV voluntarily preemptively agreed to stop the labeling. Big difference imo.
Which makes the process go faster because they don’t have to spend time arguing about something that the judge was going to force them to do anyway.
Perhaps
Oh, I misunderstood that. Sorry.
I think that’s OK, would have gone to court anyway and BfV got burned badly with the NPD thing.
AfD members can just go to America.
…then get deported ‘accidentally’ to El Salvador
They’re clearly being politically repressed so no doubt Donny would welcome them with open arms, a gold/green card, and set them up as ambassadors to Europe.
plus, free cybertrucks, lol
I agree with their intentions, but they’re going to end up playing whack-a-mole if they succeed. It’ll just pop up somewhere else with a fresh coat of paint and a new name printed on the side, but it’ll still be the same horrible shit.
No, once a prty is banned all of their offshoots get banned under the same ruling. Sharing some of the ideology or people is enough. German law is serious when it comes to preventing nazi parties.
It’ll just pop up somewhere
That’s certainly possible, but it would be a crime.
Something being a crime doesn’t stop a movement, it could fuel it.
IMO we shouldn’t beat the Afd etc. By making it illegal to be far right, we should beat them by understanding why people support them and by having meaningful conversations with those people and addressing their issues
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Uh… Brothers of Italy? National Rally? Reform UK? The Nazis are winning basically everywhere in Europe. And also, you want WWIII? Because this is how you get WWIII.
Somehow I can’t imagine European countries fighting each other again. Fighting at the borders of the EU? Maybe. But like, Europe infighting like back in the old days? No fucking way. Against Russia and/or the US? That may be. But I also do not think so. It will continue to be a hybrid war played out by propaganda and economical warfare, and the occasional tactical military flare-up. I think in our post-modern times almost nobody wants an old school war. Hard to sell to everyone. No need if you can get whatever you want using other manipulations.
I mean I doubt Germans in 1930 saw the Holocaust coming. Give it 20 years.
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