I just switched to Waterfox. Other than having to setup desktop links manually, it’s basically seamless from Firefox.
How would this differ?
- Both browsers are more private OOTB than Firefox.
- LibreWolf has more privacy- and security-oriented defaults than Waterfox, like a halfway point between Firefox and Tor Browser:
- It enables Resist Fingerprinting by default
- It discards browsing history by default
- It has a new Settings menu that makes it relatively easy to control these features that tend to break websites.
- It lacks some of the customization features Waterfox pioneered.
Thanks for this. Appreciate it. I might consider switching again!.
Librewolf runs better on windows from experience.
Also my professors’ lecture recordings on the bullshit microsoft cloud storage doesn’t open on waterfox but does open on librewolf.
I still like waterfox more tho. It feels lighter and runs on android.
I feel torn regarding the lectures. Bs lectures sound bad, but being forced to use microslop seems somehow worse.
I have a few pcs and laptops on the go atm, so I plan to swap one to Librewolf and see hope it goes vs. Waterfox.
Unless I notice or am impressed by something noteworthy, I’ll probably just stick with Waterfox on the others for now.
You know, firefox was a decent name all in all… but can we stop naming browsers NounNoun?
LibreWolf
LadyBird
WaterFox
IronFox
IceRaven
IceCat
FireDragon
IceWeasel
SeaMonkey
SwiftFoxI get it, it’s based on firefox*.
(*I didn’t check that every one of those is based on firefox or even a browser, I just did a quick search of firefox alternatives to pad my list since i didn’t have them memorized)
Out of those you listed, LibreWolf and SwiftFox are not NounNoun: they are AdjectiveNoun.
I always thought libre came from book. Does it mean freedom?
Yes, libre in French and Spanish mean free, but specifically as in freedom/independence and not cost (gratuite/gratis).
Fair enough.
I think SweetieFox is ok
I’ll allow it
I see what you did here
- Netscape
- Internet Explorer
- Safari
- Opera
I’m sensing a trend here…
How about we start going with verb adjective?
- Jump Big
- Shout More
- Deny Cute
How about a 16 word security key
Chromium
If you use Firefox sync, do not sign in in LibreWolf. It will ruin your settings.
I use FF sync in LW to keep my desktop and laptop synced. Haven’t had any issues, even when switching between Win10 and a few Linux distros.
edit - when I switched to LW I stopped syncing with FF entirely.
All of them? I noticed Firefox shit the bead in general.
I’ve been using Mullvad browser that was recommended for having the strongest anti-fingerprinting features. I would be interested in whether anyone has any idea how Mullvad browser and LibreWolf compare and which is “better” (or are they targeting different threat models?)
IMO they’re no different in any practical way, but i don’t have the technical knowledge to back up that assertion.
The type of security they offer is a trade off against convenience. I know I have to dial back libre wolf’s aggressive privacy protections.
Just made the switch. Is there an easy way to import old Firefox profile locally? I obviously don’t want to use Firefox Sync.
You can import history, bookmarks etc as CSV. Or do you mean something different with profile?
A firefox “profile” is a directory with all current user’s data on disk. This includes history and bookmarks, but also saved settings, passwords, extensions, cache etc. I would like to not just copy all of that, but select specific things. But its ok to start with a clean browser with only bookmarks imported for now.
I still don’t understand why people are recently switching away from Firefox. The telemetry thing seems totally overblown. The ads are absolutely minimal. It’s great software.
It’s been a steady exodus since less than a year ago when they removed the bit from their TOS about never selling your personal data and promising to protect your privacy.
I believe the recent surge has been the forced integration of AI features which are on by default (arguments were made to at least make them opt-in and not opt-out). Such features compromise privacy and security.
They’re actively doing everything they can to monitize the consumer and going against their supposed stance as the ‘privacy focused’ browser.
Noting their blog response: https://blog.mozilla.org/en/firefox/update-on-terms-of-use/
Essentially, they claim to still not be monetizing the consumer. I can find no reporting claiming that they have monetized any consumer, and it’s been almost a year.
You’re right, I probably should have phrased that as ‘they appear to be doing everything they can to monetize the consumer…’
Actions speak louder than words and the action of modifying their TOU to remove the following really struck a nerve:
“Does Firefox sell your personal data? Nope. Never have, never will. And we protect you from many of the advertisers who do. Firefox products are designed to protect your privacy. That’s a promise.”
Removing this statement feels motivated by more than the excuses they’re giving - it feels like a betrayal. Subsequently shoe-horning in AI features doesn’t help reverse this sentiment, it only emboldens it.
To each their own, but Mozilla clearly doesn’t care about being ‘the privacy focused browser’ any longer or they wouldn’t be taking their current actions.
I do not understand it either; my best guess is that some law intern messed up real bad, and convinced somebody it was a risky thing to leave written down.
But yes, I’m really really interested in if they do stop being a private browser. As you say, actions speak louder than words, and a TOU always felt like a pile of words to me.
A few things come to mind… for me the main reasons are:
- The new Mozilla CEO pushes AI into Firefox, and for now it seems that it will be an Opt-out procedure to get rid of it. As a software developer with a bit of technical knowledge about ML and LLMs I have a deep mistrust against C-Level types blabbering on about AI as our lord and savior.
- Mozilla is funded heavily by Google. Almost 85% of Mozilla’s funds come from Search engine deals with Google. Google itself is one of the top 3 megacorps when it comes to surveillance capitalism, erosion of privacy and enshittification. You guessed it, that’s not very trustworthy to me either.
- There are more reasons, but I’m not a fucking wikipedia. Look it up if you really want to know.
Also I think it is good to have a choice, especially in the browser market where Chrome, Edge (MS-flavoured Chrome) and Firefox are the only viable mainstream choices for most people. If you’re happy with Firefox, good for you. But there are valid reasons not to be.
- So far it’s just a tiny button in the bottom left corner that can be removed with two clicks. If it escalates then maybe I will worry.
- That’s fair but at the same time, at least it’s a funded OSS project?
I can agree that Firefox isn’t always taking the perfectly moral stance on every issue, but I just don’t yet see a deal breaker materializing in the browser itself.
I just like the added privacy that privacy focused browsers…focus on. Not that deep really.
You’ll always find loud techies who will screech over the smallest shit. The privacy media outlets are basically windows uac and print any nothing burger to a mostly tech illiterate crowd.
Ask the average person what they think privacy is and what they are concerned about. It won’t match up with “I think Alexa is spying on me” shit you see in forums every day.
FF is losing users because it genuinely not as good as MSEdge/Chrome. SSO, passwords, and identity management as a whole is top notch.
screech over the smallest shit
Most people can’t even begin to realize what a lack of privacy really means for them. The amount of data collected on individuals by big tech is staggering beyond what a normal human is able to process or understand. So their peabrains think it’s an overblown reaction. Just like climate change, if they don’t see it, it does not exist. However, if you look at the US right now, it becomes apparent what happens if this data lands in the wrong hands. People who previously thought “i have nothing to hide so privacy does not concern me” now find out what it means when they are being targeted, threatened, silenced, deported, killed based on the very data they had no problem giving away, on Tik Tok, Facebook, Instagram, X, WhatsApp, in google searches, when buying stuff on amazon, on their phone in the form of location data, etc etc.
TLDR you might be well advised to listen to those techies because they know what they are talking about.
I’ve found that’s the opinion of a small but vocal techie crowd. In my experience most don’t care about it, they care more about features. And when they do care about data it’s not about Google assigning an ad id pool to them, even with how accurate they are. It’s more about direct selling and data brokers and how the government obtains data via warrants because of the whole fashi shit. Your and this communities opinions are not representative of the technology community at all in my experiences 🤷♂️
Problem is, that’s not an opinion but reality. The mass collection, analysis and sale of data points IS happening and the consequences are severe. Ignoring it or talking it down will not make it go away. Let me give you a few examples on how your data is used:
Data brokers are selling this data to anyone who pays.
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Price gouging: Your location data and your shopping habits are used to determine if you are living in a wealthy neighborhood or if you are shopping expensive things. Based on that data you pay more when shopping online
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Your entire phone contacts which you willingly gave away to a messenger app might have been leaked and/or sold. Everyone who pays can now identify who you have contact with or had contact in the past. If one of them is on the government’s radar for whatever reason, so are you now. Expect visitors.
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Your period tracking app shows that you’re late / location data shows you went to an abortion clinic in another US state. Expect visitors.
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Your fancy ring security camera is being accessed without your consent. Who is that brown-skinned person at your doorstep every few days? Might be an illegal immigrant. Expect visitors.
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One of the games on your phone picks up your live location data and sells it. You might have wondered why the game needs location permission when installing it but after all, how bad can it be…
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Insurances, medical or otherwise buy your data to determine if they want to insure you at all and how much it will cost you. Did you not read your fitness tracker’s TOS?
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Criminals can use your data for spear phishing/spam. This works like a regular phishing attack, but is customized to you personally to fit to what they know about you.
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You have googled a specific search term out of curiosity. This triggered a monitoring software and is now reported to the authorities.
I could go on, but I guess you get the picture. All this shit is happening already. Its about time to take it seriously.
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k
Completely agree. The telemetry is opt-in (personally I opt in as a matter of principle). As for the coming AI features, whether we like it or not these are soon going to be non-optional in any browser which wants to be used by non-techies. Without the normie users, and without the work done by the Mozilla security team, there is no Firefox. I get why people want to use the downstream forks, but we need to get serious. For Waterfox and Librefox to exist, Firefox needs to survive and thrive.
whether we like it or not these are soon going to be non-optional in any browser
That remains to be seen. People are so tired of that overhyped AI crap already, and even the normies begin to understand that this is a shitshow which will make their lives worse. Don’t underestimate the power of a frustrated userbase. Things are not set in stone. History is full of huge corporations which failed due to their own arrogance and boneheadedness.
Nobody will buy these “cars”, what’s wrong with a horse and buggy? History can support either side of this debate.
That’s not what I said. Maybe ask chatGPT to give you a summary if you’re too dense.
This kind of comment is why social media has such a deservedly bad reputation.
What kind of reaction did you expect? “Nobody will buy these “cars”, what’s wrong with a horse and buggy?” - You’re implying that people who are criticizing AI or having bad experiences with it are just technology-averse and backwards. That’s an insult in itself. Sorry about calling you dense though, that was unnecessary.
Yep, this fork is the one I use frequently and now that Mozilla has become a pro-AI-slop company, fuck the stock Firefox browser it is now complete and utter absolute dogshit.
Anyone still using the stock Firefox browser and still complains about other things violating their privacy are premium morons.
Cannot say this enough fuck the corrupt Mozilla Corp paid and essentially owned by Google, with a Rentier CEO
Frequently?
So it’s not your main browser of choice? What is your main browser and why use this one over that?
I am stuck with an Android phone, and there is literally no use in leveraging a secure browser on that platform given how much telemetry a phone sends back regardless of what your security posture looks like, so I simply use whatever the fuck is pre installed, and am hyper aware of what I do using my phone and limit use
How is Mozilla a pro ai slop company?
They’re baking in AI bullshit.
You can disable it with two clicks and then never think about it again. Seems like a petty reason to completely switch browsers.
I disagree.
Mozilla has lost their way. They’re constantly focused on gimmicky strategies to win users instead of their historic A-game: a privacy focused browser.
All day every day I use both ungoogled-chromium and librewolf. I prefer librewolf but there’s so many sites that gecko struggles with now.
I’m not claiming the Mozilla is anything like what they used to be, but the Firefox UX has not degraded in any noticeable way for me that would justify switching to a fork of Firefox.
No one forcing you bro.
Firefox just plain doesn’t work on a bunch of sites I use daily. Partly I suppose because devs aren’t testing their sites on Firefox anymore.
Additionally, resources spent on AI and other nonsense are resources not spent on their core product. That is to say, you dont know what we’re missing out on.
That’s a valid complaint. I’ve never had issues on any sites with Firefox. If the tides change and I start having issues, I will consider finding a better browser.
Another privacy-focused Firefox alternative is Phoenix, which prioritizes security, freedom, and usability.
Unlike Librewolf - which sometimes lags behind Firefox’s release cycle due to its small development team (consider supporting them!) -Phoenix operates as an overlay on your existing Firefox installation.
Key limitation: Phoenix does not support DRM-protected video, so streaming services are inaccessible.
…until they gain in popularity.
You think LibreWolf will sell out?
I think that’s unlikely.
It’s a soft fork as in it will never stand alone without updates from mozilla.
Pretty much just some config files and a build script that enables / disables flags for whatever features.
There are loads of other similar projects and many of them share the patches / configurations between them.
I don’t think there’s really much for them to monetise, honestly. Like their following is built on not being mozilla, if they become mozilla-lite then any number of other existing projects could fill their gap.
It’s much more likely that Firefox UX just continues to deteriorate, maybe they will capitulate on Googles next attempt to force ads on everyone, maybe google will not renew their next revenue agreement.
Firefox and all it’s soft forks are on a trajectory towards doom. Ladybird is our only hope, and it’s not much of a hope IMO.
Then there will be another fork. I’ve been using LibreWolf for several months now and so far it’s been pretty neat. But of course, that’s a sample size of 1 person.
I’ve been using it for much longer, at least 1 or 2 years, I forgot. Pretty neat, and makes us a sample of 2.
I’m a third! Using fennec on android also good
I’m more of an IronFox person on mobile
Also an IronFox mobile enjoyer. No matter which fork, I don’t know how I coped without having a functioning adblock on mobile before.
Fourth!
Been using Librewolf for a couple of years now across Linux and macOS and have no issues with it. Waterfox on my phone though.
Fifth sample and v happy about it
Moved recently. Likes it.
