• misk@piefed.social
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      5 days ago

      Normalisation will happen based on whether someone is going do something about it, not whether we talk about it.

      • crapwittyname@feddit.uk
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        5 days ago

        That’s not right. The Overton window shifts based primarily on political discourse. Politicians saying things has an (often measurable) effect.

        • misk@piefed.social
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          5 days ago

          Overton claimed that politicians typically act freely only within the “window” of those seen as acceptable. After his death, his Mackinac Center for Public Policy colleague, Joseph Lehman, further developed the idea and named it after him.[7]

          The most common misconception is that lawmakers themselves are in the business of shifting the Overton window. That is absolutely false. Lawmakers are actually in the business of detecting where the window is, and then moving to be in accordance with it.

          • crapwittyname@feddit.uk
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            5 days ago

            The core claim I’m making is that political discourse is the primary means of moving the Overton window. Now politicians operate within it, sure. And they form a part of the discourse, too. And if you think politicians aren’t interested in the power of shifting the Overton window then I wonder how you interpret the existence of propaganda for example?

            • misk@piefed.social
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              5 days ago

              Politicians pay for polls and then respond to the public sentiment. If they go against public opinion it’s usually to benefit the rich so there’s little bandwidth for other things. You’re thinking of influencers, entirely different profession. Some politicians are both, the president of Germany isn’t.

              • crapwittyname@feddit.uk
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                5 days ago

                Do you think politicians would influence public opinion if they could? I believe politicians would pay nearly any price to be able to do that. I also think that anyone telling you that politicians are not in the business of influencing public thought are either very naive or lying to you, your link above notwithstanding. I’m not thinking of influencers, I was thinking of propaganda, which is when a politician attempts to influence public thought. Sometimes it’s very clumsy, sometimes it’s very slick. Some times it’s ineffective, others not so much.

                • misk@piefed.social
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                  5 days ago

                  Think about how many representatives you have in your parliament wherever you live. How many can you name? That’s your regular politicians. Do they influence or are they there to vote per party line?

                  President of Germany has about as much power. He represents the country in terms of diplomacy and that’s it. This news piece is essentially „Germany concerned with the way world is changing”. Will this change anyone’s opinion on the matter? No.

                  • crapwittyname@feddit.uk
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                    5 days ago

                    Will this change anyone’s opinion on the matter? No.

                    I guess that’s where we differ. I don’t agree. If even one person’s mind is changed by what Steinmeyer said then you are wrong in what you say.
                    He is the president of Germany, his words are important enough to make it into Reuters, and therefore a great many people are going to hear what he says. For some of them this might be the first they’re hearing about the US efforts in Vietnam/Greenland/etc. and they will realise that the US is indeed destroying the world order, and that will be thanks to Steinmeyer speaking about it, and news agencies reporting on what he says. That’s just one feasible example of how this might have an effect. There are infinite other possibilities.

        • misk@piefed.social
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          5 days ago

          Just that professional speakers can be very good at using lots of words while saying very little, which can also serve the purpose of doing nothing.

          • Nico198X
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            4 days ago

            that’s a good thing to be concerned about, i agree. words and actions must go together. lets make sure we let our governments know that we want them to cut off the US.

      • Nico198X
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        5 days ago

        that’s a bit reductive. there’s a time for action and a time for words. also important for recording what is happening.

        it’s no one elses job to save America from itself. we just need to decouple and look after our own interests and be prepared to act if America crosses the line with us (cf. Greenland.)

        • misk@piefed.social
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          5 days ago

          I think we had enough of time for words. Will there ever be a time for action? If not, then maybe we didn’t need as many words.

          • Nico198X
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            5 days ago

            i get it. i’m frustrated too. but while the US admin are fascist assholes, they haven’t done anything to us YET to warrant too hard of a response.

            what we should be doing is aggressively decoupling. no more US weapons, stop favoring US companies, independent EU tech stack, local defense buildup, things like this.