To put it in perspective: the USA has it (but dormant as it was last used in the 60s) now, instead part of an automatic register. I’ve heard that last year Germany for example proposed to impose a mandatory, volunteer-focused military service model on boosting defense against threats like Russia but would you really enlist in the German Army (Bundeswehr) or refuse instead of adhereing to politicians interests?
I’ve heard a similar thing in France with them introducing a new voluntary 10-month military service program for 18-19 year olds starting this summer 2026, but would guys there be willing to enlist or outright refuse? What ever the case is, would guys in Europe either accept voluntary military service imposed by their nation or refuse to enlist as they know that politicians are the ones who instigate wars in the first place?
For EU nations that still have the draft enforced (mandatory conscription): what happens if guys refuse it? Do they end up in jail? In that case, would you rather be imprisoned for refusing or comply? I know that some countries have alternative service (civic) rather than conventional military service, but what happens if the individual refuses either? I mean, is it a criminal offense for simply refusing conscription?
Under no circumstance am I going to war. If they draft me I will appear there stoned as hell. My drug Test shall glow in the dark.
I also have some medical conditions, mist of which have not really been diagnosed, so I highly doubt that they would recruit a seemingly drug addict with various medical conditions for which they might have to pay.
I’m pacifist and anti militaristic so no. But I would join the civil defence if we came under attack.
The problem is when you come under attack the training takes too long to be fully effective.
I’m a fan of the Swiss model personally. Rig all your bridges with explosives and live in the most mountainous land possible.
I’m French, and I’m also a trans woman. I have a feeling that if a draft was to come into effect, my legal status as a woman would be bizarrely revoked in a heartbeat, for some reason. However, this country can get fucked, and I would rather die on my own terms than die for it. it. As for your question of imprisonment, as I said, I’m a trans girl and I know what will happen to me in a men’s prison, so, as I said, die on my own terms.
I’m not being sent to the slaughterhouse just because one dude’s ego was so massive that he decided that he wanted to be remembered in history and therefore thought that starting a war would be the best way to do so or to further the interests of a bunch of dickheads protecting a system that should have died decades ago and of some corporation benefiting from it.
Depends on the reason. If it is to protect my loved ones and fellow citizens from losing their freedom from a violent conquering foreign power then most likely I would show up for the draft, still scared shitless though. If it was for a deranged, debauched, degenerate leader who wanted to cover up some of his crimes then no, I’d be on my way to Montreal.
I will fight to defend our rights to express ourselves, love who we want, be who we want.
The biggest and most immediate threat to these values are our governments. Implementing surveillance policies under the disguise of protecting children, while failing to bring those to justice that are actually harming them. (Epstein is the current example, the abuse in the church has been known for decades more)
Corrupt politicians are representing the ultra rich and multinationals instead of the people, funneling our tax money into their own pockets and blaming immigrants and asylum seekers when underfunded infrastructure fails. Fueling the fire that enables the political shift to the right without any regard for the consequences.
In short… the answer is NO, there is no government worth fighting for. There is no government that represents me.
I think it really depends on the foreign policy of the country you live in. I would argue most European countries are unlikely to start offensive wars but would rather be defending against Russia for example. European countries are especially weary of offensive wars after what the US and UK pulled in order to make them join the Iraq War.
In this light, yes, I do believe it is the right choice to bolster our armies in Europe. I wanted to join myself but it seems my shoulder is too fucked for that.
But it is also a risk, since it could always happen that right wing extremists, like the afd in Germany, could come into power and then you’re stuck working for a military at the behest of fascists.
I believe we have to take that risk in order to protect European democracy. We just need to also do everything in our power to not let the fascists win elections in Europe.
I’m in the USA and am medically unfit for service.
Hunter Thompson was a famous american iconoclast and no friend to the oligarchy. He served in the Air Force and said that the draft was a good thing, because it forced all kinds of people to interact and work together.
Another Vietnam era draftee once wrote that a professional army is full of lifers who will obey any order, no matter how illegal. A drafted civilian who doesn’t care about their military career will stand up for what’s right.
In short: I’d refuse, oppose it and campaign against it.
I owe politians nothing. The rethoric about patriotism, duty and all the other arguments commonly used to carry forward pro-draft, pro-defense, pro-rearmament, etc, are hollow.
There are bad actors in this world but politians still confuse public office with unbridled authority and people allow for it like sheep.
Draft as been talked about in my country (Portugal) a few years back, by people that never served as military, from a “conservative” sector of society, using arguments gravitating about ingraining “values” about patriotism, discipline and sacrifice to the younger generations.
Translation: you are to be braiwashed, forced to obey, never question and die where and when ordered.
I risk most will defend their home and family at the risk of cost of their health and life if a bad actor arises. But that in no way leads to the logic for need of a standing army.
Peace is peace. Armed peace is a veiled threat.
I risk most will defend their home and family at the risk of cost of their health and life if a bad actor arises. But that in no way leads to the logic for need of a standing army.
You say “…if a bad actor arises.” But we already have those bad actors at our doorstep, they don’t need to arise. I don’t think we would be able to defend against Russia if we didn’t have standing armies. A quickly mounted militia is no match for a standing army, so I would say there is a pressing need and logic for a standing army.
Admittedly, Portugal is at the other end of Europe and not really threatened by Russia, but arguing against standing armies in general because it would be other nations fighting for you is a bad argument imo.
But I actually agree. Armed peace is a veiled threat. A threat against Russia (and other hostile nations) to leave the European Nations and democracy in peace.
Many people in the world will disagree with that view.
A standing army is a lumbersome beast. It requires supplies for both machines and soldiers, space, infrastructure.
A loosely organized resistance can severely hinder or even cripple such a force with assimetric warfare.
People fighting for a belief fight with resolution.
Many people in the world will disagree with that view.
I mean, yeah sure, but a lot of people in the world would also agree with me. Neither of those things make a point though.
A standing army is a lumbersome beast. It requires supplies for both machines and soldiers, space, infrastructure. A loosely organized resistance can severely hinder or even cripple such a force with assimetric warfare.
It may be more cost-effective, but definitely not human-life-effective. I guess it depends on what you value more. Money and and materials or human life? Because I can guarantee asymmetric warfare costs a lot of lives. I mean just ask the Vietnamese if they would rather have had an army capable of fighting the US. Or the Iraqi. Or ask the Ukrainians if they prefer their army fighting Russia or having to fight civilian asymmetric warfare. You don’t want to have a civilian fighting force against a foe that has invested in a modern military with Anti Air, tanks, missiles, drones, trained personnel.
I personally prefer paying the price of war in money and materials than in the lives of my fellow citizens.
People fighting for a belief fight with resolution.
I don’t disagree but are you implying that this is not true for a standing army?
Plus whoever organises these resistances will end up as an Organisation akin to an army anyway. So you just end up with what you didn’t want but only weaker and less able to defend against an attacker.
It can be risked, with a fair degree of confidence, considering what is transpiring from the ongoing wars that what is considered conventional warfare is changing at a tremendous speed.
Air superiority, conventional artilery, mobile armour, highly sophisticated and expensive weapons systems are being rendered useless, powerless or at least less than superior, by cheaper, often disposable solutions.
This entire combat landscape change, in my view, is the early warning of a deeper trend where human resources will be much more valuable than machinery and conventional armies are a liability, not an asset.
Small, highly mobile, capable of underground, covert operation groups - guerrilla warfare - will be a game changer.
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Please read my comment again.
Deleted… Read through too fast. Silly me.
No worries
I’m hypothetically in favor of abolishing war machines as well, but this can only be achieved if workers organize internationally to overthrow their and every other state everywhere in the world simultaneously. States are literally war machines funded by taxes; everything else they do is done to the extent it helps pacify the people who’d otherwise organize themselves and rise against borders, conscription and being governed rather than governing ourselves. I also understand that fighting against states will probably be comparable to a war in terms of bloodiness and chaos, and will have to repeat whenever a new gang appears and tries to become a state.
A state is a necessary organism within a country. What is unnecessary is the ease with which polititians move into a space where they think themselves as untouchable, unaccountable and unquestionable.
To occupy a position of responsability is exactly that: a position of responsability. This implies the appointing must be short, highly supervised and the actions must be transparent and easily auditable. It is not a life long appointment, with unchecked and unlimited reach and power, as we see commonly done today.
The very notion of state must change. The state is the sum of all individuals contained within a country’s borders. They all must enjoy the same rights and protections in and from the law and be capable of actively intervene on the governance of the nation, with a government assigned to do the general management.
To use a quote I find very much enlightning: people should no fear their governments; governments should fear their people.
If they tried to draft me I’d tell them to eat all of my shit and hair, I’d rather go to jail.
Mandatory military service breeds corruption and violence, there’s a reason many countries abolished it. You are putting hundreds of dumbass teenage boys, whose parents weren’t rich enough to afford a waiver, all together governed by people who intentionally went into service (often not the brightest kind to say the least) and expect good things to happen. Countries that have immediate concern for invasions from neighbours should invest in an actual paid standing army, if they can’t - too fucking bad.
In the USA, if they try to force me, I will chew our their jugulars and be shot on the spot. I will not die alone though I promise you.
Over my rotten corpse.
You can be “lucky” and not seen as fit for the military. Or you can apply for civil protection. Should you be in the military they will try to keep you and i personally dont know of a way out. Maybe if youre wealthy and have top lawyers.
They have an Achilles heel tho; If you start mentioning extreme backpain you might be out soon. They dont want to pay for crippling you/chronic backpain.
As for the jail part. You were drafted and refuse?–> straight to jail
You are a recruit/soldier or whatever and you dont follow orders?—> straight to militaryjail
Militaryjail is full so you are lucky right? Wrong you go straight to jail.
Jail is full? Preparations are on the way for extracells.
You feel like a tool for the state? You are.
Swede here, we had conscription when I came of age, so I was called to muster.
I went, and promptly failed the first test, the hearing test, I got a pass and didn’t have to do it.
At the time I was glad, I was scared, I didn’t want to do it, these days I think it would have been a valuable experience.
Anyway, I believe Sweden is worth fighting for, should we come under attack, I would get in touch with the civil defense and do my part.
As a Finn, it’s good to hear that you’ve got our back.
It was a sad day for us when Sweden switched from a conscription army to the much smaller version it is today.Interesting tidbit, it was explained to us in the military as a move made because you felt safe with us as the defending wall between you and the eastern aggressor.
Now as part of NATO, I hope you’ll come to our aid none the less.
Interesting tidbit, it was explained to us in the military as a move made because you felt safe with us as the defending wall between you and the eastern aggressor.
Well… Sweden is Swedish until the last Finn falls as the saying goes.
Oh, it was an absolute shit decision to get rid of conscription here.
We don’t have the resources to provide enough benefits to attract enough people to join the military on their own, so conscription is the only realistic way forward.
I am a strong believer helping our neighbors if they come under attack, even if the government won’t, and I know I am not alone with that viewpoint.
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Not sure about today, a few years after I mustered conscription was stopped, then for 15 years or so, we had no conscription, but a few years ago it was reinstated.
If you were selected back when most men was conscripted, you had the option to pick a weapon free service, you still had to serve, but in the civilian world, say like a firefighter or similar. Complete refusal would eventually lead to prison time.
When I mustered, they were completely open with the fact that if you didn’t want to do it, it would be taken into account, and mostly respected, depending on the circumstances.
They didn’t really want people who didn’t want to be there.
I think I would, unfortunately. There’s no choice. I’m Romanian and I know plenty of history to know what happened to our military in the last two WWs, but if there’s a demand, then I would go for it.
Peoplle in my country all say that “oh, I wouldn’t join, which corrupt politician do you see me to defend? I’d rather move out of my country” etc. (You usually hear this from the most right wing people out there).
The reality is that you’re not fighting for the asses of the corrupts only. You’re also fighting for the relative freedom that you have, the safety of your land, so that your dear ones don’t have to be forced to learn another language or subject to a culture they don’t want etc.
And no, if there will be any mission involving America, I don’t think there will be a draft. They’re usually just sending a bunch of people in the conflict, mostly sitting on the side and that’s it. It’s mostly Russia that I’m afraid of.
Switzerland: my dad had to go to prison for a limited time for refusing military service and had to do an alternative service as well.
I was able to opt-out military in a normal way (just filling a form) and do the alternative service without going to jail, as this was changed in the time between
But the alternative service are 1.5x times the days you have to serve
