Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden. None of these nations have an minimim hourly wage enshrined in law. Instead many of the base terms of employment, including wages, are decided via collective bargaining between sector trade unions and representatives of public sector and business interest organizations.
Minimum wage decided by politics is something taken for granted in many parts of the world, but ultimately it’s a question that most of all affects the suppliers (employees) and buyers (employers). The government will always be behind the times in legislation and have many other interests to juggle than yours - don’t just be a passive participant in the market.
I live in Sweden by the way, so feel free to ask me questions on the topic and I’ll do my best to answer.
We actually VERY briefly had tripartism in the US, too. Unsurprisingly it was immediately attacked and dismantled.
Nordic system is much better for wages…
in USA our unions have been smashed down to 10%, and ironically the majority of those are government employees and police
in USA we have twenty states that still pay minimum wage (or less). They dodge minimum wage law multiple ways, all bullshit, all wage theft
Poland has better benefits for workers than USA. We have been surpassed by Eastern Europe, thanks labor party!*
*that’s a joke, we have no labor party
ironically the majority of those are government employees and police
It’s not ironic in the slightest. It’s for government employees that the conflict of interest between what’s best for the government (often low costs of labour) and employees (generous benefits and wages) becomes impossible to ignore.
Similar incentive structures do exist on a national economic level. For instance lower wages often provide a more competitive industrial basis internationally, even if that is not neccessarily beneficial for the individual employee.
It’s definitely ironic.
A government that wrecks unions uses unions to pay itself.
You can’t get more ironic
Ive always said I would rather have a maximum income than a minimum one. minimum will solve itself when you make sure one person can’t like buy every single bushel of wheat that the world produces in a year.
Wealth caps
Nobody should have a networth of over 10 million
Indeed but their philosophy is more inline with American economists James Galbrath’s view that a functional “capitalist” society at least needs a triumvirate to work. That is, equal parts unions, business and government.
Many parts of the english speaking developed world don’t have that and rely on a mostly two part system of government and business, with government ostensibly representing workers but alas government has been captured by business.
And that is exactly why gig workers are still getting screwed in Scandinavia. Talk to a Wolt delivery person, and you will quickly support a federal minimum wage.
Strictly speaking, gig workers aren’t employed, but rather a contractor who is self-employed. This means that a lot of labour legislation doesn’t really apply (which would include minimum wages).
It is in the pipeline of legislation however, and I know that some unions have started targeting gig employers with collective bargaining. Foodora for instance is covered by collective agreement since 2021.
As I understand it, they are not employees, minimum wage does not apply. They are each independent, legally running their own company. A company can sell their services as cheap as they want.
I don’t understand how that works, because it’s illegal to run a company and then work as if you’re an employee. Specially not when the purpose is obviously to get around the law for employees.
I work at a museum in the US dedicated to Nordic history and heritage. We were all at-will employed until we unionized recently. It is still shocking to me the amount of cognitive dissonance people are capable of as they long for the prosperity of the Nordic countries, but then openly bash unions and workers. The work culture is so bad here, it’s like everyone is under a persistent fog.
Works the same way in Switzerland. Some places may have a minimum wage locally, but it’s rare and on a national level there’s nothing. However the unions aren’t strong in all sectors so some jobs really do pay shit.
So that’s why they all have to work 3 jobs at least to pay rent. Oh wait, that’s only in ‘Murica the case
talk about worrying a out minutia instead of actual outcomes
gonna assume this is engagement bait
it’s pretty much the least a company is allowed to pay for child labor
Any talk of abolishing the wage system?
It’s amazing how far right we’ve come since the late 1800s
Oh for sure, there are lots of companies pushing the gig-economy self employment model.
If profits aren’t shared equally among employees, that’s not abolition of the wage system
In the US, minimum wage is seen as a goal, not a means to provide adequate compensation.
De facto there is a minimum wage, de jure no. But just know there is. It’s a bit different for different industries.
A globally defined minimum wage is a dumb idea. Even more so if it’s defined over a large area with wildly differing economic areas. Like for instance the United States.
Yet people who should know better, like Bernie Sanders, are actively talking about raising the federal minimum wage. Instead of the obvious idea, which would be to remove the whole thing.
From what I’ve heard, Norwegian unions are actively against a national minimum wage, because they believe that would act as a low anchor harming their negotiations.
Although there is no national minimum wage in Norway, certain industries or specific groups do have a specific minimum wage. For example, there is a legally mandated minimum wage for minors, to avoid them being exploited in summer jobs.
In other cases, unions have negotiated fixed levels for their focus areas (e.g. engineers working government jobs), and everyone working those jobs, whether they’re members of the union or not, will get paid those levels. Sometimes everyone in the group gets a raise simultaneously as a result of annual union negotiations.
Yeah, what workers see as a floor, companies see as a ceiling.
