What are you doing StepOil
Stepbro, I’m stuck in the Hormuz strait!
I’m drinking your milkshake.
Hard for the sheep to admit they sat on their hands while the Earth slow burned. Something about blindly following the rich and acting like temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
People a extremely susceptible to propaganda. It’s best to remember that lest you succumb to it.
I get that this post is a bit of a satirical question, but as a serious answer to the question. I think it’s because for a lot of people it is impossible (or feels impossible) to not consume fossil fuel products. If we then label it as bad then we feel like we are thus the bad guy while we feel powerless to not be that.
Basically people are forced to be something they don’t want to be thus to cope they make it their personality because that gives a sense of control over choices we really do not have a say in.
IMO you’re much too charitable. I think these are the reasons (at least for American conservatives), roughly in order of what I consider to be the most to least sympathetic:
- A fondness and nostalgia for fossil power. To be clear I think if this is the reason you’re supporting fossil fuel use when lives are on the line you’re crazy, especially when museums and motorsport categories for older engine technologies can (and already do) exist, but I can at least understand it.
- Anxiety about change. While there are lots of reasons to think that renewables will put us in a better position than fossil fuels (they’re cheaper, can be less centralized, and better insulated against geopolitical instability) a lot of people are very anxious about things like EV range and grid instability. If they’re a “low information voter” or have been fed a steady diet of oil industry propaganda then they probably have a very exaggerated view of these issues and a very poor understanding of how the world works.
- The entire idea of anthropogenic climate change and things like a circular economy directly contradicts the Christian worldview they’re operating under. For one they don’t believe in climate change for the same reason they don’t believe in herd immunity from vaccines or systemic racism. Cumulative effects, dynamic systems, and tipping points aren’t part of how they think the world works. Secondly, they view the world as something their god gave to humanity to conquer, dominate, and exploit. Telling them that they can’t suck the world dry and throw away the husk come judgment day is tantamount to telling them their religion is fake.
- For a portion of the population the above three attitudes have metastasized into conspiracy theories and fascist ideologies. Things like a belief that “15 minute cities” means they will be put into open air prisons, or that wanting to reduce resource consumption means that they will be subjected to population control so that black people can replace white people. I don’t feel like writing a giant comment examining the core of the reactionary mind, but suffice it to say that things like language and truth are very fluid for them. If something makes them feel bad then it must be bad, literally and physically. The conspiracy theories are created to justify the feelings.
- In addition to the above plenty of people want to hurt others. The fact that large powerful vehicles kill people, the fact that they’re loud, inconvenient for others, and spew black smoke, makes them more appealing. The fact that oil use creates wars that kill children is a bonus. All of this is tough and manly. It makes them feel good.
Also, for many, their livelihood and how they provide for their family is directly tied to fossil fuels and the price of fossil fuels.
Also, for
manynearly all, their livelihood…Almost everyone lives by moving vehicles with fossil fuels, making or moving petrochemical plastics, growing things with fertilizer sourced from oil processing, etc…
i mean we need both the nitrate/nitrite i forget which and the phosphate fertilizer to maintain a good healthy soil and i think the shit is the phosphate one.
It’s simpler than that. Left leaning folks exist within the contradiction just fine via harm reduction.
Right wing people just will never admit they are wrong about anything. That’s really it. They will simply invent an entirely different reality before they will knock over a single card in their card house.
Do not, my friends, become addicted to oil. It will take hold of you, and you will resent its absence!
but i neeeeed my vitamin e. and my olives.
for a bunch, it’s that their entire personality is wrapped up in burning carbon. they know it’s bad. they’re not completely stupid, they simply think their hobbies - vroom vroom bullshit like cars, bikes, trucks, dune buggies, rock-climbing jet skiing etc, they think it shouldn’t count because some other asshole is producing even more carbon than they are.
the cult of vroom vroom is gonna watch cars race in circles until we don’t have a breathable atmosphere, and they’ll never admit they’re the fucking problem too.
It’s not just cars. Cars are a problem because countries like America have such a hard on for driving bricks the size of a house. Efficiëncy might be a good start there…
Most of what you order online from Chinese factories is a bigger issue than some rally sport or F1. Hell driving a V8 engine full blast for a day is nothing compared to what some companies output in CO2 in seconds.
A modern car is not so bad at burning fuel efficiently. Driving electric is a great improvement, yes. but only if the electric energy is not made by burning a fossil fuel or turf or something. In that case burning it in an engine would probably be less of a pollutant. Politics are bad and corrupt. But many things are also much more complex in order to be solved, than just typing about people and their vroom vroom identity. If you want to improve the world start by doing something in your immediate surroundings. Vote for the people that show interest in renewables and such. Even in shithole countries like America, you can still change things.
By your logic, if your hobby would be anything other than Gardening or maintaining a wood, you are very much part of the problem. Even by using internet or charging any battery you are actively using the burning of fossil fuels. It’s unavoidable. So maybe do less of that if you care?
And no. I won’t stop using internet, or driving a car. But I am about to buy a home battery in combation with solar panels on my house to make sure I use as little electricity as possible from sources outside of the sun. I have enough money to do that and will spend it to change what’s within my power. No pun intended. The town I live in pays for each concrete tile you give to them, in return for plants that you can plant in the holes they leave. I planted several bushes and a fruit tree for free because of this.
I am not stating you or anyone else must do that too, because that’s not my place. But I can only advise that you try to change your own habits and be more mindful of what it is you use or do. Don’t attack others for doing the wrong thing but change what’s possible and help others try too.
This is precisely what I’m talking about, thank you for being an object lesson:
FOLKS
IT’S NOT ABOUT WHO’S DOING MORE BAD SHIT THAN YOU’RE DOING
IT’S ALL ADDING UP TO DESTROYING OUR ECOSYSTEM. YOUR PART COUNTS TOO. AND YOU HAVE CONTROL OVER IT.
IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO, THAT’S ON YOU - BUT STOP ACTING LIKE YOUR PART DOESN’T COUNT. IT DOES.
I’ll ‘attack’ everyone I see doing it, thanks.
Rock climbing?
sorry, I guess it’s more accurately called rock crawling:
these assholes go out to pristine wilderness, then let their shitmobiles carve it up leaving wheel ruts all over the place; inevitably there’s some fuckwit who wrecks their oil pan because they think they have clearance, leaving oil slicks over half the course.
these dickheads will tell you “oh what we’re doing doesn’t make that much CO2” - when they simply can’t realize, it’s all more than zero, and their burning our children’s future with ever rev of the engine.
Oh, that’s awful
I think they really meant “rock climbing jet skiing” which, like “extreme ironing”, is not for the feint of heart.
Many people have as an immutable axiom “I am a good person”
When you suggest they are doing something bad, like contributing to climate change, this clashes with that axiom.
That clash causes discomfort. Most people are, frankly, lazy cowards. They could accept that they are not being a good person all the time, and update their axiom. But that’s scary and feels bad. They could also try to do something about climate change (or whatever the topic is. see also: veganism), but that’s also hard. It’s far easier to just lash out at the source of discomfort.
The oatmeal did a comic on basically this topic: https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe
Good thing my axiom is, “I’m a hypocrite just like everybody else, but at least I know it.”
Honestly that’s much more respectable. Someone who says “Yeah, I had a hamburger at the bbq. I know eating meat is bad for lots of reasons, but it was already there, and I can’t always live my ideals” is so, so, so much better than “No fuck you meat is good for the environment actually I’m a good person shut up”
The back-fire effect explains why so many people love to watch Fox News, even when they’ve admitted in court that they’re not news and no rational person would take them seriously. Reinforcing beliefs through propaganda is comforting - and no amount logic or fact checking is going to change it.
… yeah we’re basically fucked as a species.
I don’t think they’re lazy cowards - or rather, I think “lazy cowards” is something lazy cowards say to explain away lazy cowards they disagree with - I think they grow up in an environment where admitting fault or even suspending judgment is something that will get you attacked or taken advantage of. Whether by parents, teachers, classmates, friends, politicians, cops, priests, or gods.
Children aren’t great at lying. If they don’t believe they are a good person, people will notice that self-doubt and take advantage. Believing you are axiomatically good is safer, protecting you from bullies of all kinds who are looking for someone who won’t resist being punished.
Properly dealing with climate change often requires a major lifestyle change that is largely outside of people’s control. It’s natural that people who haven’t processed their childhood schemas would respond to it according to those schemas, and that for people whose childhood schemas are centered around avoiding responsibility they respond by stall tactics like pretending climate change isn’t real so people waste time proving it to them.
“lazy cowards” is something lazy cowards say
Good job spotting the ironic tension! Now can you explain how the paragraphs below it help resolve that tension?
I can’t
Veganism is not a solution to climate change. First anything that requires everybody to agree on one solution is always going to be a non-starter. But also veganism just doesn’t work for everybody, like myself, I became so malnourished that I nearly died. It’s simply not possible for everybody to be vegan and still get all of the nutrients they need. Especially in this economy.
“in this economy” veganism is cheaper than vegetarianism is cheaper than omnivorism
If you became malnourished you weren’t eating vegan, you were eating junk food.
But to actually address your point, we don’t need everyone to be vegan, or for those that do to be vegan consistently. Even cutting consumption of animal products by a third would have a huge impact.
Even cutting consumption of animal products by a third would have a huge impact.
I doubt it. did you try that? can you show me on this graph when you started?
denying others experience doesn’t change it
my dude, meat is already just a seasoning in my meals unless we’re doing BBQ. let people pick their own diets. they might have specific reasons that the one you’ve decided is best doesn’t work. i end up in the hospital rather frequently if i try to eat vegan. it really did not go well and the solutions we could think up to keep me out of the hospital were to either take out the foods with nutrients (because of course those were the ones putting me in the hospital) or to add in cheeses, eggs, and meats. i’ve always kind of had these two bucket list goals: first, to eat one of everything and rise to the top of the food chain, and second, to stay out of the hospital. so like, veganism really didn’t seem morally compatible with those life goals and i instead eat a lot of delicious delicious gyro and empanada (from the empanada bear)
Right you know everything about my life and what my nutritionist and I talked about at the time. Yeah… I fucking hate responses like this.
For the record I became malnourished because it was impossible to afford the number of calories I needed without meat or dairy. And even though that was some years ago I can pretty much guarantee you that that’s still going to be the case in small towns like the one I was in at the time. Veganism is only cheaper than anything else if you don’t need 4000 calories a day to stay alive and have options that aren’t Walmart to shop at.
it was impossible to afford the number of calories I needed without meat or dairy.
… Because meat and dairy are massively subsidized. If we wanted veganism to be a part of mitigating the climate crisis then it would obviously involve changes in economic policy.
just saying this doesn’t change the material conditions
So, to clarify, veganism was a separate example of things that cause a strong emotional reaction.
Second of all, I don’t really believe you but I don’t especially care.
The yt channel Technology Connections made a video on solar and made a great point that stuck with me
If oil was so precious and valuable and important why do we light so much of it on fire?
I mean, I think it’s precious for its ability to be lit on fire
We still need things like grease, lubricants, and plastics. We rely heavily on oil products that are not burned and oil is a finite resource, yet we like to light most of it on fire anyway even though we have energy alternatives that are more cost effective in the long run.
Here comes the wind power: Woosh
If you love public sanitation so much, why do you literally shit on it?
Yeah, but you should have seen my dad…
Propaganda works. Is why.
I’m about to start my own political party and call it “The Gas Price Party’”. Since it’s the only issue that matters for 75% of the population, I bet I could get elected just because of the name.
The rent is too damn high!
That’s exactly why we want to keep gas price low, so you can give the money you saved to your landlord.
I like this guy’s words!
Enough of these retarded woke politicians, we say it as it is: High gas price is gay!
And property taxes! I hope renters know they’re paying property taxes too.
Gas prices still come second to “owning the libs”
“I’ll have you know my great-great-great-great*108 ancestor turned into oil recently, have some damn respect for my deep family history!” /s
I’ll speak for the voices I hear around me because I hear this all the time in my conservative area:
Climate has demonstrably always been changing Our region has been cooler than average for all of the 2000s People don’t trust when the solution is always “give us more money and power”
curious about how exactly is advocating for climate change awareness asking for more money and power?
That’s easy: because the side advocating about climate change wants to come into your home and ban your gas stove, your gas water heater, your gas yard equipment, and your vehicles and replace them with “less efficient” versions. There is a ton of “pay more for less” FUD, and just enough of that FUD is or was true for that crowd to see it as a money/power grab.
The side against it is then amplifying all of that while blaming higher prices on the killing of coal and gas while spouting laissez faire freedom propaganda.
The global warming doesn’t exist side believes it is a grift the same way everyone outside the MAGA bubble believes the Alt Right influencer/commentator shit is a grift, or the Flat Earth movement is a grift. There are enough grifters and true believers in any system that can be cherry picked to reinforce any individual’s viewpoint.
Ok, what should those raising alarm about climate change do instead? Keeping quiet is unconscionable. We all share the same world and we can see all indications of ecological and climate collapse around us? How can one deal with an emergency? Speaking softly has fallen on deaf ears.
Gas is relatively cheaper because of subsidies, moneyed interests who make profit from said subsidies and government grants for oil drilling, and military actions abroad for oil. The actively hostile reception of sustainable sources is not helping either.
People want to blame those advocating for a better future. They don’t realize their present wellbeing is borrowed by people who want to preserve the status quo by inflicting massive damage to other societies and the environment to a large extent.
I have stopped describing climate change denial as a side, since it is not a side, but rather a misunderstanding.
This describes it pretty well:
Everyone likes palaeontology until it turns a profit, smh my head
Shaking my head my head
RIP in peace ATM machines
F
My grandma litterly said “i cant hear it anymore”
