Fuck the DNC. The day I watched their goons push & shove my friends & allies down the stairs of their DC HQ for peacefully protesting was the day I knew they really were the monsters they claimed to be trying to protect us from
A key part of protest voting is taking ownership of the election result. After the dems loose the election, regardless of whether your protest movement actually was causal for the loss, you need to claim that you are responsible, and if the dems don’t meet your demands, they’ll never win an election again.
but I don’t want them to win an election again.
Well, I assume that a democratic party that meets the demands of an actual socialist/communist will be unrecognizable from the pile of pathetic cowards we have today, having only the name in common.
the actual mistake of politics is that we have given in to vibes-based voting instead of actually looking at policy proposals and commenting on those.
Yes, there’s a lot of with us or against us instead of does this policy make people’s lives better?
It’s how states get representatives like NC and Tricia Cotham, who ran as a progressive then just switched her entire platform once elected.
Cheers and happy cake day
oh thanks :)
Democracy is the people, and the people are for their emotional validation.
Didn’t the ancient greeks point out the exact same problem and basically outlined the cycle of falls?
They vote to fund ICE, Biden did nothing to release the Epstein files or go after obvious sedition in the name of bipartisanship. His SAVE act was desperately needed after he signed into law the inability to discharge overwhelming amounts of student debt in bankruptcy. He has personally voted to increase police funding. Obama started putting kids in cages and continued the funding of ICE. There’s more but that’s what’s just on the surface of what I remember right now.
Dems destroyed black lives matter and health care for all as well.
Republicans certainly go the extra mile though.
Because democrats enable them.
Democrats drive the truck. Republicans man the water canon.
You two are pretty darn stupid if you think Republicans are not able to fuck the USA on their own.
They have plenty of help with that from BlueMAGA
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There’s that BlueMAGA covert ableist slurs liberals love to use.
Centrist democrats get abusive when people point out that they’re gleefully complicit with fascism.
That’s why we say scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds.
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Doubling down on the abuse because you’re incapable of defending the wing of the party that betrays its voters and supports genocide.
It is the same story in lots of countries now, with the pretend to be left (but center-right) party you go down and with the ultra right wing you go down quickly and on wheels
Only about 20% of eligible voters vote in the primaries. If we want candidates that will fight for our interests, we need to do more than simply voting Democrat in the general elections.
I’ve been using the following sites to find candidates that aren’t taking AIPAC money and are focused on supporting the working class:
We also have to get involved. Our congressman, who takes hundreds of thousands from AIPAC and lives outside the area he represents, ran unopposed because I didn’t find out he didn’t have a challenger until it was too late to file. Local Dems should have been ready to pounce on him but nada. Had I been more involved, might have been able to primary him. At least make him go on the record about where he lives and the Israel money.
Got to be careful with those because a lot of them are transitioning away from AIPAC specifically to AIPAC adjacent. Still taking that Zionist money, but under a different name.
While I won’t argue that this has often been the role of the Democratic Party, and I have no doubt that it is a priority of the current party leadership, it is not an inherent function of the party. With our current electoral system, it is inevitable that our politics will be dominated by two parties. Republicans are the worse choice of the two on literally every single issue, including being less open than Democrats to changes to the electoral system itself. The solution, as leftists, is not to abandon the Democratic Party, but rather to take it over from within and elect party leadership focused on real change and not upholding the status quo. This approach is much more feasible and potentially much faster than trying to build a new party from the ground up, and much less destructive and painful for the people than violent revolution and the civil war that would likely ensue.
While I won’t argue that this has often been the role of the Democratic Party, and I have no doubt that it is a priority of the current party leadership, it is not an inherent function of the party.
The purpose of a system is what it does.
I think the centrists probably hate the voters.
Oh, they’ve made that clear.
How do we the people create any true influence over the DNC? Aren’t they like the final approver for a democratic presidential candidate? And the DNC board isn’t elected by the people as far as I know. How could we ever have a true leftist democratic party if the DNC is running things?
We can get a lot of the way there by not rubber stamping their bad candidates. They need to know that if they play chicken with the voters we wont blink-- but we always have in the past. We’ll let the republicans drive this country right into the gutter if the DNC doesnt actually court our vote and just does whatever the rich donors and AIPAC want. The centrist voters would rather roll over and say they were powerless to influence the DNC, and vote for whatever trashy candidate the DNC sleezes into place. Theres nothing down that centrist road. It’l be a painful fight and we’ll take a lot of lumps letting republicans win if the DNC effs with us, but its the only strategy we realistically have.
By voting blue only if the candidate is a genocidal piece of shit, and opposing any progressive candidate.
Which is the only thing “vote blue no matter who” has ever meant.
They argued, and won in court, that they are a private corporation and voters are not entitled to fair elections and they are under no obligation to listen to the will of the voters regarding the candidates they select to win the nomination of their party
Just like in New York City. Get good candidates and elect them in the primaries.
We’ve had good candidates for decades. The party’s attempts to kill their campaigns are sometimes unsuccessful.
Anyone paying attention to political history in the US knows it is an inherent function of the party. Liberals have always been the gatekeepers of capital, always placing a firewall between the left and structural change.
That’s how they passed the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts, huh? By stopping structural change
Those weren’t passed by voting Blue no matter who, but by organizing, unionizing, striking, protesting, and threatening revolt.
Power concedes nothing without a demand. If you don’t threaten politicians’ careers, they will ignore your pleas.
Unless of course you have the capital to buy favor, which capitalists have and do.
Schoolhouse Rock and The West Wing have endumbened us all.
They sure as shit weren’t passed by mindless loyalty to the Democratic party
And I thought that coasting on the 15 year old ACA was a stretch. The party is not the party of LBJ any longer. It’s the party of Netanyahu.
so do the conservatives, except they are more likely to buy into it.
My spouse is watching The Good Place, and just got to the end of season 3. There’s a scene where one character is explaining to a council of people from heaven that life is so complex nowadays that nobody can get into heaven, and for the last 500 years not a single person can get into heaven.
The council then says they’re going to spend 400 years forming a committee, and then that committee will spend 1000 years forming its own investigative committee to make sure there’s no conflict of interest, THEN they’ll investigate the system to see if there’s a problem.
The first character then exclaims that I those 1400 years before the investigation even starts people will still be going to hell regardless of how good they tried to be.
The committee then states they are “deeply concerned” by that, which got me to start cackling.
The committee sums up my view of democrats.
Even if they are concerned by the daily atrocities and banality of evil, they’re too concerned about doing things “by the book” and too concerned with the status quo changing that they are basically doing nothing. They might think they’re acting swiftly, but the whole time all the people suffering are continuing to suffer.
I mean it’s not subtle
Even if they are concerned by the daily atrocities and banality of evil
You must not be American. Right now all branches of the Federal Government and the majority of states’ governments are Republican. Democrats have absolutely no power to do anything but talk.
The US isn’t a European style parliament where minority parties have some power.
It’s funny how when Republicans are the minority power, they get everything they want, when Republicans are the majority power they get everything they want. But when Democrats are in either position, they can’t do anything.
You must not be American. Right now all branches of the Federal Government and the majority of states’ governments are Republican. Democrats have absolutely no power to do anything but talk.
It’s funny that when the roles are reversed and democrats have majorities, they’re still powerless. They’re just malingering and useless.
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That’s an insufficient “get out of accountability for four years of deliberate betrayal plus genocide” card.
You’re right that Democrats are near-powerless right now, but it was only a few short years ago when they were in power. Let’s not forget their actions.
When in power, they did not concern themselves with the daily atrocities or the banality of evil.
Their overwhelming support for the genocide in Palestine is just the tip of the banality iceberg.
Republicans spend a decade gaining supermajorities in state legislatures and packing the judiciary with republican judges.
Democrats spent a decade celebrating Hillary Clinton’s imminent election.
Ask Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema if Democrats were really “in power.” Republicans have been willing to shred the Constitution in order to get what they want, but it works primarily because they operate virtually in lock step with one another, even if they sometimes allow one member or another to vote No on some horrifying bill or another, so long as that No vote won’t change the end result.
Democrats have the opposite problem: in recent memory they’ve only ever had the narrowest of majorities in Congress, and they’re a bunch of cats on a good day, so there’s always a few Democrats in vulnerable seats that will break with the party in order to maintain their “outsider” image with their purple district voters. Add on that Democrats for the most part don’t want to shred the Constitution, and it’s very difficult for them to achieve their goals.
And add on that most media in this country is owned and operated by billionaires and it constantly pushes the narrative that anything to the left of Ronald Reagan is basically Karl Marx, and you’ve got an electorate that is on balance very suspicious of things that, to a reasonable person, would obviously make the world a better place, like universal healthcare, free pre-K education, police reform, immigration reform, and so on.
The Democrats that do want to make the world a better place are essentially trying to play honest baseball with unreliable teammates, shitty coaches and managers, opponents who are 'roided out of their minds, and umpires who won’t call objective balls and strikes. Even for the ones who are trying to improve things (and they do exist!) it’s an appalling situation.
Ask Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema if Democrats were really “in power.”
They were. They wielded power through people like Manchin and Sinema.
Democrats have the opposite problem: in recent memory they’ve only ever had the narrowest of majorities in Congress, and they’re a bunch of cats on a good day, so there’s always a few Democrats in vulnerable seats that will break with the party in order to maintain their “outsider” image with their purple district voters.
Well, that’s all the party needs to do the only thing the party is for. Being the pawl on the ratchet.
Student loan forgiveness? Replacing Coal with Solar? Expanded ACA?
All gone under Trump. But both sides bad.
you missed genocide. How do you measure mass murder against the loss of student loan forgiveness? Not willing to take a stand on that? How about industrial scale rape with Epstein? The dems didnt handle that but its just not as important as replacing coal with solar huh?
all things the Democrats didn’t give us
Democrats gave it and Trump reversed it.
But you like it because you “sent a message” because “Kamala didn’t earn your vote.”
Trump is what you wanted. Trump is what you got.
Basic human rights and dignity is what we wanted and the DNC didnt offer it so I did my best to not lift a finger to help the DNC this last election, after a lifetime of straight blue voting.
And I’ll do it again if they keep running the worst candidates they think they can get away with. I’ll take the quick death over the slow one, thanks. If that makes you mad, great, I’m past mad.
you have no idea how I voted. but lying about whether I got student loan forgiveness isn’t scoring you any points, nor is your bad faith accusation that I, or anyone who didn’t vote for Trump, wanted trump.
but lying about whether I got student loan forgiveness
re-Read the thread. You didn’t make that claim and neither did I.
The thread is about policy, not you personally.
I am American, and i am getting very tired of hearing “they CAN’T do things because they have to play by the rules!”
I am American, and i am getting very tired of hearing “they CAN’T do things because they have to play by the rules!”
The rules they could change with a simple majority. And any rules they can plausibly make up as well. We can’t ignore the Parliamentarian!
they could also jettison “My job is to keep the dems supporting Israel and nothing else” Schumer as the minority leader any time they wanted to with an internal democratic leadership vote. They only need a small number of dem senators to call for the internal vote, but it never gets called for. So evidently it’s not just schumer-- it’s the whole party’s job.
Under the US system, they have no more power than you. The military and the FBI are legally loyal to the President. Congressional representatives have no army.
Why don’t you do something more than talk?
I’m doing far more to help people than the democrats as a whole.
Literally any one of the things I volunteer for put me ahead of the majority of them.
Why don’t you stop making excuses for people who don’t care about you?
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But keep telling everyone how Trump is the same as Biden.
Trump is worse than biden. But biden is a genocidal piece of shit just like everyone who still carries water for him.
What exactly do you expect them to do? Don’t just say “something”, be specific.
Harris would be president right now if she would have just said she’d end the genocide, and no other changes. Progressives dont need purity, they need the most basic , basic floor of human dignity and thats not on offer from the DNC and people like yourself, chaogomu. And you know it.
Keep their promises when we put them in power and stop supporting genocide.
Encourage people to take power into their own hands by any means necessary. Stop downplaying and condemning the use of violence to get shit done. If a city needs to burn down and cops need to die, then so be it.
So your big plan is either a cross between and unwinnable civil war and a terrorist movement guaranteed to drive people away from the cause.
Sure.
I’m not going to join in on your suicide by cop plan, but you go ahead. Pull a Luigi, make it count. Otherwise, wait until after November so that if wide scale uncivil disobedience becomes necessary, it will be seen as justified and not some psycho lashing out.
guaranteed to drive people away from the cause.
no, you can’t prove this
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I think that’s a big reason many Americans don’t vote. It’s not really a choice, just the perception of a choice and the spectacle of a contest.
Democrats are far from perfect, but the gulf between Democrats and Republicans is immense and the false “both sides” rhetoric is tiring and a big reason why we’re in this mess.
Do you think we’d have war in Iran, no USAID, and dismantled regulatory agencies if Kamala had won the last election? There is a choice.
Democrats are far from perfect
Your daily reminder that BlueMaga liberals don’t consider non-westeners to be human, because that’s the only way you can describe active genocide as “not perfect”
Do you think we’d have war in Iran, no USAID, and dismantled regulatory agencies if Kamala had won the last election?
100% I do think we’d be at war with Iran under Harris. The war was launched at Netenyahu’s demand and Biden’s white house had “no limits” when it came to Israel. When did Biden or Harris ever flat out say no to Israel and back it with actions? One weapon system being delayed for a few days and some propoganda vibes is what you lot base your entire argument on. Biden gave Israel anything and everything it wanted, and Harris is married to a frothing zionist, and he and his zionist brother ran her campaign. To suggest Harris would have been better or stronger is pure fantasy. AIPAC 100% runs the dems, and AIPAC would have gotten their war either way.
No Limits: The Biden Administration’s Support for Israel’s War on Gaza [https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/waf2.70009]
Why is Biden/Harris’s stand on this matter ok with you? Why do you draw the line specifically at Iran war? Is it because it raised your gas prices, but you dont give a crap about what else Israel is doing with US taxpayer money?
You are literally advocating for US imperialism in your BS reply
The choice was almost always, come to choose the lesser of two evils. Unfortunately people think by not voting it will somehow make a difference, when in reality it just shows that people give up when it’s too hard and expect someone else to fix it. The first basic step is always to keep the boulder from rolling further downhill by voting to prevent more decline. Given enough time, change can happen, you just have to realize it’s incredibly slow moving like evolution and requires more of us at the top instead of sitting on our hands and letting social influence turds fill the offices.
It isn’t like this can’t be retaken, it just requires more than one person taking office.The choice was almost always, come to choose the lesser of two evils.
The margin between lesser and greater evil keeps narrowing.
“we need to slow the decline by mindlessly voting for people who consistently continue the decline”
No, I’ll agree with you in general, but I would also say that both sides are generally working for billionaires and operate generally as neoliberal parties. Biden even proudly confessed his capitalist convictions.
I don’t disagree that if this last election had gone differently we’d be in a different probably better position, but I also don’t think we have universal healthcare. Plenty more nuance to that than will fit in a comments section, but yes I agree but there’s a lot more to it and people hear democratic promises but don’t often see democratic action.
But also at this point it’s becoming less two neoliberal parties and more the neoliberal party and the fascist party, so yes I’ll 100% take the neoliberal over the fascist.
Neoliberals are fascist
Feel Clean, Vote Green /s
this, but without the sarcasm
Youre right i guess we should all just start voting for more republicans. Maybe well get jd vance mext. Maybe hegseth wants to take a shot. Since theyre all the same anyways. Maybe patel or noeme then she can shoot dogs all day and itll be totally fine. Or better yet just stop voting all together. Who needs all that noise. Just let them do whatever amd we can go back to being serfs
Youre right i guess we should all just start voting for more republicans.
Things centrists say when progressives win primaries.
These type of people would never be in politics if liberals held their own politicians accountable. Every time they turn a blind eye to something their political leaders do it allows them to get worse and worse because they know there are no consequences.
You’re the one who said it, not anyone else
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He is literally the grand exception, are you dumb?
Half the DNC refused to support him during the election despite being the obvious populist because he was too socialist.
The only other candidate I can name is Bernie because I don’t even think AOC falls into this category because she has to play compromise in congress.
Are russians in the room right now? Your cognitive dissonance got triggered as fuck. BTW DSA are gatekeeping liberals that will also fight the working class in favor of capitalism
