• plyth@feddit.org
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    1 day ago

    In other words, Brexit happened at the point of no return after which the British population would have become convinced Europeans.

  • merc@sh.itjust.works
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    1 day ago

    This is a very good way to visualize this data.

    Way too many people voted “leave” then died before really having to accept the consequences.

    • tiramichu@sh.itjust.works
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      1 day ago

      It took four years to leave the EU.

      Sufficient Leave voters had already died that the vote if taken again would have been ‘Remain’ before leaving even happened.

      Not only did they not face the consequences, they didn’t even live to see it.

  • IratePirate@feddit.org
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    1 day ago

    WTF is wrong with remainers switching sides after the Brexit debacle has blown up in everyone’s face?

    • this_jury_is_hung@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      Change itself comes with a hefty price tag when dealing with decisions of this scale. Doesn’t surprise me that there’s a decent chunk of people voting “just leave it the fuck the alone”, regardless of whether that means leaving the EU, or staying out of it.

      • IratePirate@feddit.org
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        1 day ago

        Ah, I get it now. The “devil you know” argument. In other contexts, that does have its merits. In the context of Brexit, however, it amounts to saying: “Well, I clearly voted against setting the house on fire. But now that it’s burning, I oppose any effort to put out the flames because I’m afraid of getting wet stains on the couch.”

      • ambitiousslab@feddit.uk
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        1 day ago

        Seconding this. For anyone interested in wider discussion of the difference in attitude between whether it was a mistake at the time, vs what we should do now, this was discussed in more detail on the opinion brief podcast by the polling org more in common.

        Direct podcast link. Brexit discussion starts at 34:31 and ends at 1:01:43.

        Some notes:

        • Support for the status quo when it comes to our relationship with the EU is highly correlated with how the economy is doing
          • When we were in the EU, support for membership was high when the economy was doing well, and low when the economy was doing badly
          • Now that we are out, it’s flipped: support for membership is lower when the economy is doing better, and higher when the economy is doing badly
        • There’s a similar correlation between how insecure the world feels / how scared the public feels and our positive attitudes towards membership of the EU
        • Rejoin / stay out is ~2:1 in favour of rejoin. However, this probably wouldn’t be robust if another referendum actually happened:
          • “applicant status is supplicant status”. By rejoining, EU would give a list of requirements and then say “call us once these are done”.
          • It’s very one-sided, would make the leaving process look like a battle between equals in comparison
          • This would be quite politically toxic. So, public opinion would likely shift in a sceptical direction in any debate.
          • This eurosceptic shift is seen in most countries that join the EU, so you need a massive level of support to begin with
        • Although the UK could use the same Euro trick as Poland and Sweden, where they say: “yes, we’ll definitely take the Euro at some point, just not for the forseeable future”, this argument could only come after the negotiations - everyone would have to pretend that we’re really serious about taking the Euro while negotiating, which would be politically toxic
        • No politician is going to start negotiations with the EU. Negotiations take 5+ years - any significant economic benefits would come after 10+ years. In the meantime you cost yourself significant political capital pushing it through

        Some other interesting discussions:

        • Rise in populist parties is because UK politicians no longer have an easy group to blame whatever goes wrong on. UK voters are voting against the status quo as a protest vote because they’re still unhappy
        • Leave campaign’s success came from tying membership in the EU (which no-one really cared about) to immigration (which many voters cared about). Now, that same tying of immigration to a relatively settled topic on the right is happening with the ECHR
          • If we leave the ECHR, we effectively get a no deal brexit. The EU would be at liberty to rip up all our trading agreements, because they’re contingent on membership of the ECHR
        • The Remain campaign really badly interpreted the results from the Scottish referendum. Yes, they won the referendum, but during the process, support for leaving the UK went from 25% to 45%. Euroscepticism started almost neck-and-neck before the referendum campaigning began
    • Ontimp@feddit.org
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      1 day ago

      Nothing, it’s valid. The damage is done, Brexit is complete and the costs are sunk. Rejoining itself would constitute another large change with both direct and opportunity costs.

      It’s like saying ‘I should have gone to university when I was 20, but now that I’m 45 it doesn’t make much sense to leave my job to go study’. It doesn’t mean that you’ve changed your general outlook on education, just that time has moved on and the boundary conditions of the decision have changed.