Toyota boss has a radical solution to catch up to Chinese automakers, which are eating its lunch worldwide. Will it work?
I think they’re still butthurt that Chademo never took off.
You want marker dominance? Make a cheap EV hatchback.
I want a damn sedan that isn’t over 100k. Everyone has a damn SUV of some sort, I want a city car that seats 4.
Aww, did somebody leapfrog you technologically because you refused to change??
Detroit:
Last I heard they were claiming BEVs were an interim technology and everyone was going to move from them to hydrogen.
Which that premise always made me laugh. The distribution system for hydrogen would be insane to install. Electric is nearly ubiquitous and you can add in chargers much easier than hydrogen infrastructure. Not to mention you still have the energy conversion loss factor from making, storing and transporting hydrogen vs riding the existing electric infrastructure.
Hydrogen only makes sense to Japan. They have no natural resources for lithium batteries. But plentiful of cheap electricity to convert water to hydrogen. So for japan to be energy independent, hydrogen does make a lot of sense.
Yeah that whole thing has been idiotic from the start. I remember Popular Mechanics pushing articles about the new “hydrogen infrastructure” and “our hydrogen future” and all that shit.
That and hydrogen has been 5 years away from ready since the mid 90s.
If they want market differentiation, make an electric car that’s not spyware on wheels. Quality basic functionality while letting the user turn off all the telemetry and extra bells and whistles they don’t want.
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Tell that to Slate Auto. They’re launching a bare-bones pickup for under $25000. Pretty much everything right down to the car radio is an optional accessory. And they have stated that they will happily provide the templates for things like the radio & speaker mounts so individuals and third parties could 3D print their own mounting adapters if they want to customize their truck after they buy it.
Yeah, but for 25K, before taxes, you get crank windows, <300km of real range, potential safety hazards because now everything can be dismantled and screws are exposed everywhere, the worst electric motor efficiency, etc etc. Slate is DOA, and I bet they don’t improve any of the huge pain points until 5 years in, or they just straight up go under.
This Toyota? The one fighting climate action, funding climate deniers, and lobbying against electrification?
- https://act.greenpeace.org.au/toyota-files
- https://www.citizen.org/article/driving-denial-how-toyotas-unholy-alliance-with-climate-deniers-threatens-climate-progress/
- https://electrek.co/2024/05/14/toyota-once-again-ranked-as-worst-automaker-on-climate-lobbying-globally/
Other than Nissan, every Japanese manufacturer actively fought EV adoption, and Toyota has been one of the worse. And now, they go…
You don’t understand, hydrogen is the future man
Didnt they pull back from the EV market and switch back to hybrid?
They should get their shit straight first.
Exactly, it’s only this year that Toyota even made a competitive BEV! It’s insane they’ve managed to remain the #1 global car manufacturer while being completely out of the BEV market?!
Honda just killed its planned EVs and the only EV they were shipping in the US. So much for “teaming up”.
In fairness, that was actually just some dogshit variation of a dogshit Chevrolet. But, yeah, I get your point.
I actually think the Korean automakers’ comments are very interesting. It was along the lines of:
“Yes, I’ll admit, BYD is making excellent cars. But we’re certain their pricing is unsustainable.”
And that is the pattern of many Chinese industries. They go absolutely all-out on the “brutalize the market upon entry, with no shame, then tighten the screws once competitors are damaged” approach. They take it to an extreme.
Temu is an example everyone knows.
…So maybe Japan does need to do something drastic, in the very short term. Yes, Toyota dug their own grave here, and they need to fix that. But perhaps they need to do something unsustainable, too.
A unsustainable market requires unsustainable practices or something.
I mean, they used to. Before ‘Made in China’, a lot of things were ‘Made in Japan’. Economic crises don’t help…
I suppose Japan will have to learn how to live with this new competition, just like Europe and USA had to in the 60’s when Japan entered and disrupted the market.
The 2010 Corolla EV is the best car we never had!
As I’ve said for a long time, in glad everyone else is buying shit Chinese cars because it will drag the price of property cars down.
Have you driven one? Or rode in one? They work fine.
Why do they have to be cheaper than proper cars then ? You know, economics and stuff. If they’re just as good as proper cars why are vendors leaving all that money on the table?
Turns out selling more units can lead to higher revenue
What an amazing revelation. Genius. It’s amazing to me that other manufacturers haven’t made this simple discovery.
They wanted to make Hydrogen junk and did not invent new batteries.
Because undercutting your competitors is a great way to enter new markets. Japan did the same thing in the 70’s and korea in the 90’s.
As you said in another comment, China is supporting their electric vehicle industry right now, because it allows them to achieve more economic control of a major growth industry, by forcing other non-Chinese car makers to lower their prices, raise quality, compete on some other basis, or go under.
It’s worth it to their govt to fight climate change, too. If you are cynical about their motives, think of this as getting international brownie points, but it has been a consistent goal of their government for over a decade now.
Along with the subsidies, there are conventional economic advantages for Chinese EV builders.
They have a massive domestic market to sell their vehicles, so they can build huge manufacturing capacity and be reasonably sure that demand will meet supply, even if the international market somehow does not work out.
I am largely positive about China’s recent actions, and I see a lot of lessons to be learned from their modern economic system. However, I treat them with realpolitik in mind, as I do all countries. Countries almost always act in their own interests, unless they are taken over by idiots like the USA. Those who trust in China’s good intentions without criticism are missing the point, just like those who blindly support the US or Australia any other country.
You are right to be skeptical, but you shouldn’t let that blind you to the real situation, and that quality can be found for less money if the circumstances allow.
Ideally, btw, I would absolutely love to buy a Holden Commodore electric station wagon when I replace my current beloved old Executive from 2001. But there has been a succession of shite governments who were short-sighted enough to think that supporting a domestic car industry was unnecessary. The Coalition is to blame far more obviously than Labor, but they both fucked up in this area to a degree.
It’s too easy on the left to say that we shouldn’t support a big corporation with taxpayer money to keep a domestic business alive, if you don’t know why a domestic manufacturing capacity is important to preserve. I am not proud of my side of politics on that one.
Edit: Oh yeah, forgot another one: China leads the world in battery tech at the moment, unequivocally. They can make batteries for cheaper, so they can spend more on the rest of the car and still make money.
Yeah, everyone assumed the Chinese cars were going to be shit, then they actually turned up and western manufacturers made a whoopsie in their pants and have been in a blind panic ever since.
They really want you to keep believing it, though.
LOL. Found the BYD owner.
So it goes proper cars > chinese EVs > rivian then?
That’s not really surprising TBH.
American manufacturers have an abysmal reputation. Only an American would want to drive an American made vehicle.
So do you just walk everywhere?
No?
What’s a “property car”?
Proper car
Do you consider EVs not “proper cars” or just don’t like the chinese ones?
The “Chinese EVs” are winning simply because they’re the only ones fully behind producing EVs. Japan was ahead of the curve with the Toyota Prius, Mistubishi MIEV and Nissan Leaf but rather than capitalize on their early success they decided to stick with outdated fossil fuels because they like the smell and noise..
The Chinese EVs are shipping more units because they’re the cheapest EVs, because the industry is heavily government subsidised.
Except in the US where their protectionist policies prevent Chinese cars from being sold and the other car manufacturers can artificially pump up their price to offset their R&D and losses globally.
Remember, it’s only racketeering if it’s not sanctioned by the government.
They’re not shit though
