On a post about Great Britains sex-based spaces laws that was painted as trans people being “banned” from public restrooms, I pointed out that they are not banned, they just have to use the ones that are for their sex.
Nothing incorrect there. 100% factually correct. Sex and gender are constantly spoken about as being separate things now, since sex is not changeable (despite what the person who replied thinks)
Note that yptb is not your second chance to argue for bio-essentialsm. We will ban your ass if you try to continue arguing for your bigoted opinions here, even if you try to masquerade it.
Yes, they are the sitewide rules. In this case it would be toeing the line a bit, but it would still constitute bad faith trolling to miss the point of Trans folks’ loss of rights available to others. It also betrays the wording on the bathrooms themselves, so not really hard to understand and would certainly flag as bad faith to most mods and admins.
Yes, whether knowingly or not you are being transphobic. The subject is about people of gender identities different than what they were assigned at birth being forced to use the spaces aligning to how they were assigned at birth. This practice is transphobic and dangerous as fuck to many trans people, you do realize that trans women are at severe risk of being raped and assaulted when they are forced to use men’s bathrooms right?
You’re not going to get much sympathy from others when you openly and intentionally parrot transphobic talking points and downplay the severity of trans experiences. YDI.
Edit: Your comments in this thread are proof that you are a transphobe. YDM.
YTA; trans women are women and trans men are men. Forcing them to use sex-based spaces based on the gender assigned to them at birth is not only an overt act of misgendering, but also puts such individuals at a far greater risk of harm given a far greater chance of standing out.
The distinction between gender and sex in that context was retroactively applied to such spaces by transphobes who don’t believe in the existence of transgender people.
If the name were suddenly changed to ‘gender-based spaces’ would that suddenly fix the problem, or is there a reason beyond transphobes making no distinction between transgender women and men that transgender women don’t belong in women-only spaces?
Something I always find fascinating is that people insist that sex is meaningful and yet almost nobody knows theirs. Instead what they know is what genitals they have and what their secondary sex characteristics are.
Like OP, have you had your chromosomes tested? Do you actually know what sex you are, or are you basing that off how hormones have made your body develop?
You were probably banned because it’s basically a transphobic talking point. Like you’re saying “Trans men aren’t banned from a toilet, a big hairy man with a fucking beard just needs to walk into the ladies”. The realistic outcome of that is violence, and visa versa for transwomen.
The amount of people that would be “surprised” to find they are the opposite sex to what they are is a rounding error. People like that almost always have under developed sexual organs and other dead giveaways that something isn’t quite right, which leads to testing - at least in the western world, they might ignore it in less advanced places.
Also sex is meaningful. We don’t have separate women’s sporting events because of gender, but because of the physiological differences between the sexes.
You sound insufferable. How do you know you’re actually the father? Maybe she had sex with someone who doesn’t spend all day thinking about trans women’s penises.
What if you couldn’t get your wife pregnant though? Like if you were infertile and got tested and it turns out you’re XX with some quirk would you feel comfortable going to the ladies? Would that be a good outcome?
You obviously wouldn’t, you’d just use the mens illegally (now).
You really don’t understand biology very well. Insisting that people with various sex chromosome abnormalities should get a DNA test for something you could never tell looking at them (and therefore making them at risk in the socially wrong environment), or the much more common occurrence of someone who developed more masculine than their sex chromosomes would indicate as a result of androgen.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/pharmacology-toxicology-and-pharmaceutical-science/virilization
Something tells me you’ve never sequenced your DNA to find out your sex chromosomes. Why should anyone? It’s just bigotry to make certain peoples’ lives worse. You can polish the turd of the bad arguments you have all you want, it’s still devoid of substance, science, or logic. It’s creative hatred from beginning to end.
“Sex and gender are two different things, I’m not a transphobe!”
*One comment later*
“Having a Y chromosome make you a man!”
I remember when people tried to be believable. If there was any doubt about you being a transphobe, your comments here have thoroughly assuaged those doubts. YDM.
It’s honestly annoying. Yes, sex and gender are two different things. This is correct, but hardly relevant. The chromosome thing is nonsense, even a cursory google would teach the layman there’s XY women and XX men who developed that way naturally, let alone all the inbetweens because like anyone who stops looking at their phone once in a while, life is messy. But then they go on to suggest that toilets should be separated according to sex. Few women would actually want XX trans guys in the women’s toilets.
It’s all just a lazy excuse to pester an already marginalised and vulnerable minority. That and the perverts who want an excuse to look in little girls private parts. And the most frequent victims of the penis inspectors? CIS XX women and girls who had the temerity to not wear make-up and dress hyper feminine when in urgent need of a shit.
God forbid someone wants to do a poo. Or tackle the real threat to women: CIS men. But right-wing women are too scared of their pastors, fathers, uncles, brothers, and elected representatives, so they would rather not attack them.
To quote Andrea Dworkin:
“Women intend to save themselves when sacrificing some women, but only the freedom of all women protects any woman.”
Meanwhile income inequality is worse than its ever been, the world is likely to go into an economic depression sooner rather than later, the planet’s on fire, fascism is on the rise across the world, and we’ve arguably never been closer to nuclear war. But hey, look over here, time to play penis inspector in the little girls bathroom.
You want to know the funny thing? I worked at a Dutch resort that got so tired of all this bullshit, they simply made all the toilets unisex. It wasn’t a political decision, the countries pretty right wing, it was a commercial decision. That’s the logical end result of all this nonsense.
Sorry for the huge rant. It just grinds my gears. And I’m not even trans.
And obviously I apologise if I made a small mistake somewhere. No offence meant.
What about women assigned female at birth, who live and develop as women, and then get a DNA test when they’re thirty which shows they have a Y chromosome due to a genetic quirk? Would you really say she’s biologically male? Surely you’ve got to admit there’s more to biological sex than just chromosomes.
Sex is changeable though. It’s called a sex-change surgery for a reason. Many transgender people get those surgeries to align their physical sex with their gender.
Sex is not changeable. Your sex is hard coded in every single cell of your body. It can never be changed. No amount of hormones or surgeries can change your sex.
gender is changeable. sex is not. surgery cannot change DNA. that is not how biology works.
I guarantee you that 99.9% of those calling for transgender bathroom bans wouldn’t respect their gender either; for a transgender woman complying with the bathroom ban, they wouldn’t say ‘she went into the men’s bathroom’.
The issue at hand is neither DNA nor biology; those pushing to force transgender people into spaces based on birth assignment are transphobic bigots who don’t care for a second about the harms their actions are causing.
There is no “birth assignment” of sex. Sex is observed. Sex is immutable.
I don’t want biological males, most of who are “fully intact”, going into changing rooms, saunas, bathrooms, etc with my daughters. They don’t want that either. That’s why they are sex-separated.
99% of all sexual assaults are committed by males. Transgender women are still males, and they still commit sexual assaults at the same rate as “cis” males.
99% of all sexual assaults are committed by males.
99% (also, source?) of REPORTED sexual assaults are by men. Try and report a sexual assault done by a woman, you’ll be laughed out of the room. Interesting you chose “sexual assault” and not “rape,” btw, because in many jurisdictions the law is set up in such a way that women can’t be charged with rape only sexual assault. Again that’s assuming you can find one human to take that seriously, trust me nobody gives a shit when men are assaulted, truly nobody, males will laugh and call you gay for not liking it, women will outwardly say “well that sucks but who cares because it happens to women more” and judge you as weak behind your back because you opted for “just take it” instead of “physically defend yourself from your roommates girlfriend so now you have to explain to the police how actually you were defending yourself,” (and good fucking luck to ya if you picked the second option anyway, guess who’s going to jail that night). (Btw that was just the first time a woman did to me what would be considered rape if I did it to her, I’ve got more stories that nobody cares about, and I’m not alone.)
Basically what I’m trying to say is “fuck you and fuck your ‘not all men but always a man’ ass rhetoric.”
Also of note, most violent crime is actually Male V Male, no women in sight. You are more at risk in an all male bathroom than she is in a women’s room with a trans person, statistically. Good news is all violent crime has steadily fallen since 1993 and the sensationalist media making you scared for ratings actually has little basis in reality, hopefully that is comforting.
If you don’t believe transgender women are women, at least be honest and don’t pretend you’re not transphobic, just as someone who doesn’t believe in gay marriage is homophobic or someone who doesn’t like immigrants is xenophobic.
Transgender individuals are not disproportionately violent, and the notion that transgender women would enter women’s bathrooms to sexually assault cisgender women is solely a moral panic, not something that occurs with any frequency. On the contrary, transgender individuals are four times as likely to be sexually assaulted as cisgender individuals, something that is made worse if transgender women are forced into male spaces, particularly transphobic male spaces.
Newsflash: the existence of trans people does not bring down the magical barrier keeping rapists out of bathrooms. There is no barrier, there never was. Rapists (of either sex) can enter the women’s bathroom at any time. If you want to protect your daughters then ideally they should have no contact with any males at all.
For the record, you are absolutely transphobic if you’re afraid of trans women in the bathroom.
Sex is a contruct that relates to many things. When people talk about changing sex they refer to changing the external genitals or even just the biological changes that happen when taking HRT. Chromosomes laregly do not matter in this equation and a surprising amount of people have arrangements which don’t fit typical expectations, yet most of these people go their whole lives not even knowing.
The part thats transphobic in my view is not allowing trans folk use the toilet that alignw with their actual gender.
Sex != gender? Sure. I dont care tho, this is a question for medical science.
Having a fully transitioned women with tits and lip stick going into the mens toilet is just ridiculous. Alternatively, having a trans man with a beard with massive muscles in the womens toilet is equally absurd.
It is also ridiculous to have such a villainisation of non passing trans folk using the toilet of their gender. What are we gonna do, bite you?
Toilets should be seperated by gender, not sex. Segregation based on sex isnt even enforcable anyway.
Also the toilets arent made for your sex (other than urinals I suppose). An actual toilet is sex agnostic.
So yes I do think this idea is transphobic as it places stress on the day to day lives of trans people (i.e nervously asking do i pass or not before entering a toilet). As to whether you should have been banned for that, perhaps they should have been more paitent with you.
you’re going to get downvoted because lemmy tends to leans hard into that toxic kind of “acceptance” that goes so far that they start trying to refute real life science. its extremely scary.
PTB. just be very careful about what you post to lemmy.
Girl, you’re siding with someone who is being outwardly transphobic. This is not a good look for you.
FYI, no one is arguing about changing chromosomes. People just don’t talk about it because it’s not important in the arguments about sex in society. When you take HRT, your body doesn’t function the same because hormones change that aspect of your sex. When you get bottom surgery it physically changes that external aspect of what we call sex. Sex can be changed. To argue otherwise is just wrong and transphobic.
No one claims that gender-affirming care changes X and Y chromosomes. Given that people’s reasons for excluding transgender people ultimately stem from transphobia and not chromosomes, they are entirely irrelevant to the discussion.
there are individuals in this comment section saying things like “sex is changeable”.
so, yes. the ignorance (borderline delusion) is quite rampant in general on lemmy. I’m not even transphobic. just unwilling to accept such statements that are blatantly false.
Asking a transgender woman to use the men’s restroom or locker room is the same as calling her a man, and is therefore transphobic, full-stop. Moving around the goalposts of definitions to one’s liking doesn’t make it any less so.
no, it isn’t. gender can be whatever a person chooses it to be. at any time and any place. man, woman, enby. that’s a thing one can be. or use a different gender if they feel that way.
i just said sex and gender are very different. because they are. one is changeable, one is not.
nobody is moving any goalposts. it’s just how human bodies are.
I’m all for public unisex changing rooms. for anyone of any sex or gender to use as they wish. freely.
but I don’t think its transphobic to allow female individuals to have a space away from male individuals. and vice versa.
The ‘but there’s a unisex bathroom’ argument is just as transphobic, as it still falsely labels transgender women as men.
Given that the sexual assault argument is not backed up by a preponderance of real world sexual assaults, merely the theoretical fears of transphobes, basing access to such spaces on birth-assigned sex and not gender denies the real differences between cisgender and transgender individuals, causing the latter unnecessary social and physical harm in the process.
i said nothing about a transgender woman being a man. not once. because they aren’t. they’re women.
never said anything about sexual assault either. just said that its ok to have female only spaces. just as its ok to have male only spaces.
it honestly sounds like you’re just waiting for any excuse to call someone transphobic. regardless of if they actually are or not.
just because you’re excluded due to sex doesn’t mean you’re invalid. at all. i never said it. never. it just means you’re not allowed to go there. that’s all.
there’s tons of spaces I’m not allowed to go. that’s how the world works sometimes.
Yes, biological essentialism is a form of transphobia. Whether you understand it or not. It is the excuse behind the bathroom bans being pushed out by the UK and many US states, and it actually kills people. By arguing that trans women should be segregated from cisgender women and put in with men because they are “biologically male” you are promoting transphobia.
Almost no one in regular usage considers female or male as sexes separate from ‘woman’ or ‘man’ as genders in social situations; defining transgender people in that way is largely equating them with crossdressers.
If anything, those calling for bathroom bans are trying to erase the notion of gender as being separate from sex entirely as they by and large believe transgender women are men (and transgender men women), even if you don’t.
Ultimately, both positions deny transgender individuals equal status with the cisgender individuals they share a gender identity with, and are therefore both transphobic. It’s not possible to push for a bathroom ban without being transphobic.
Ultimately, sometimes it’s best just to agree to disagree.
