I’m so tired 😫😫
I hate the ‘tolerance’ word used like this. No we don’t need to be tolerated we need to be respected as human beings with human rights.
For context, when they say LGBT tolerance has dropped, its dropped to the level it was in 2008. So its not the overall level of tolerance that’s worrying, but the fact that it dropped so radically in such a short period of time.
I suspect the numbers reflect the influence of social media and right wing extremism. The influence of the manosphere is pretty evident. But I suspect the numbers also reflect the anti-‘woke’ sentiments being stirred up by right wing extremist parties like the PVV and the FVD. Even the more convential right wing party, the VVD, is constantly crusading against ‘woke’.
Because of that the LGBT community often ends up in the crosshairs of right wing extremist politicians.
I read somewhere that re-traditionalization is an Europe-wide trend.
It’s not “re-traditionalization”
It is scapegoating by the usual suspects and all of the funding comes from the same pedos.
The fact everyone is blind to this is so terrifying to me and I just can’t fathom how people have gotten so far in life without learning any history and current events
Why learn about minorities when you don’t feel like one yourself?
I agree, it’s terrifying. I interpret it as our collective chickens coming home to roost after almost 100 years of celebrating victory over the Nazis without doing the work to dismantle the thought patterns they exploited.
work to dismantle the thought patterns
Eh yeah, thought police isn’t such a popular subject these days.
Unless you’re joking, I’m disappointed you read “dismantle the thought patterns that the Nazis exploited” and respond with “thought police”.
That’s pure cosplay. Traditionalism where it excludes others but not where it would impact their own life or hold themselves to any standard.
Problem is that when you go back to the.“traditional” usa for example, some parts of europe were already woke at that point. Theres no “traditional” france you can go back to without beong completely ridiculous if the whole traditional thing wasnt ridiculous enough already.
Strange, the people in this is community are always so receptive and reasonable when I say Euros are going fascist.
times are shitty for average people.
when times are shitty people want to go back to the how things were, when they were better.
it’s a feature of human beings generally. it’s not soceity specific. human beings don’t like chaos and unpredictability. and nothing about modern life the past decade has been predictable or regular.
Hey, all you europeans pointing at america saying “what’s wrong with you people”
If it can happen anywhere, it can happen everywhere.
america isn’t special. it’s just one place where hate and fascism popped up in an obvious way. This stuff is happening all over the globe, and needs to be tamped down before it gets too big. Keep fighting, keep pushing, and stop thinking “it can’t happen here” cause it absolutely can, and will.
Gay man here, I knew it would happen as a backlash of the 2010’s way before it became a trend. I am sorry to say that, but Trump first election (2017) did a lot of damage in Europe. Bolstered by the carrot’s mandate, euro far right has unified and imitated him. The euro bourgeoisie, who were more overtly lib (in Europe we’d say “centrists”) in the past, are way happier to be overtly fascist now. So yeah, Trump is to blame, in a way. He is using his status and power to rekindle fascism everywhere, lately through Musk in the German election.
What are you even talking about.
Of course the Netherlands needs to fight this, but that doesn’t mean American exceptionalism suddenly stopped. Now that more people realize that it’s not “especially good”, but a different kind of “special” entirely, some don’t want to identify with that anymore - but that’s doesn’t mean it’s gone.
“What’s wrong with you people” to these Dutchmen, sure. But don’t pretend that’s not absolutely DWARFED by the same statement aimed at the country lead by an openly stupid, official pedophile rapist, which has gone back to lynching black people and has the secret police shoot people for protesting.
You WISH you had the “bad” were talking about here, because of how much of an improvement it would be.
I think he’s just saying it only started in the us first. Fifteen years ago us seemed on the precipice of an era of social progress and in fifteen years the same reversal can easily happen in Europe too.
What I’m talking about is that we shouldn’t be pointing fingers and saying “at least I’m not THAT bad” because that’s how we all fail. People that are saying “voting isn’t going to matter” and “america is a lost cause” are just trying to demoralize the ones that are fighting. Protests help. Voting helps. Volunteering helps. Posting on forums helps. Brainstorming ideas in a public way helps. All of these things take small bites out of the problem, and when they add up, they make change.
We should all be trying to make everyone better. We should be sticking together and trying to improve everything for everyone. We should be holding our politicians accountable for capitulating to the US, to Russia, to Israel. We should be pushing back on billionaires, racists, right wingers, religious zealots. We, as a species, are not doing enough to stop climate change.
None of those things are unique to one country, and pointing fingers just divides us.
Good intentions maybe, but from the outside it looks like you jumped on a post about bad things happening elsewhere, that had nothing to do with America, and tried to use it to make yourself feel better about your decidedly worse situation.
Pointing fingers at America with a “look what it gets you” was/is actually a nice damper on right wing sentiment, probably everywhere. It didn’t solve it (evidently), but it’s a prime example, happening in real time.
That finger is deserved. Take that finger, and let it hurt you. Because going for the “see, America isn’t special, it’s just as bad as other places” is how YOU fail.
I do wish we were back at the point you are at.
A lot of the European news I’ve noticed echoes some of the points we were at 10-20 years ago. It’s a lot easier to fight back against at the point you’re at, but it’s also a bit harder to convince people that it is problematic.
When we’re ready to start making our country better again, it’ll be good to have role models. And if we don’t make our country better, I don’t want to drag Europe down with us.
We Americans may be a special kind of stupid, but if you love your country, you should recognize that it can still happen anywhere.
I blame the social media. Banning it for the underage is the only “nanny state” measures I agree.
I don’t think banning it for the underage is specifically bad, but it can’t be enforced without some bullshit that is bad, and won’t work anyway. However, I think it’s plenty bad for adults too. It either needs moderation, or it needs to be not allowed in general. I’m all for people being allowed to do what they want, but there are points where consumers need protections, and algorithms manipulating them, in the way social media does, is very harmful and needs protections against.
Can’t we just ban it for everyone and be done with it.
This. Life before this shit was better. And these are not the fascinostalgiaglasses speaking. People were fine without this garbage.
I’d gladly leave Lemmy behind. I don’t care.
I think that instead of a ban we need to teach them how to use them resposably (and not with those stupid videos the gov makes, teenagers just laugh at them) and also to add regulations to ban those algorithms that push hatred and bullshit
The reality is that something as mundane as social media can have an incredibly debilitating effect on the developing brain of an adolescent.
Corporations treat kids like an experimental playground. I mean, you can just look at the global drop in childrens’ reading, writing, and spelling abilities and realise maybe replacing pen and paper for laptops has been a net negative for their developmental pathways.
Corporations treat kids like an experimental playground
Seeing how many adults go batshit crazy through Social Media, I say it’s society as a whole having become an experimental playground.
When we say this we don’t mean that USA drifted to the right and Republicans won some elections. We’re talking about voting for a racist pedophile with dementia. Twice.
Which European leader shat himself in front of cameras recently?
When we were degrading our democracy 10-20 years ago, like Europe is today, our leaders weren’t shitting on camera either.
I don’t get your timeline. 10 years ago Trump won first elections so you already had leaders that were total clowns. Before him Obama was president so I’m not sure what degradation of democracy you’re talking about. If you’re referring to the general failures of your two party system and corruption of all institutions it started way before that but you don’t really see anything like that in EU yet. Voting for Trump and voting for far-right parties in EU isn’t the same thing.
Yea, you’re right I should’ve said 10-30 years ago. But even that, its all a slippery slope. Democracy takes a lot of work.
Here are two milestones on our descent.
Under Obama:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC
A bit further back:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act
The patriot act is one that’s really been echoed in Europe recently with the age verification stuff.
Electing far right leaders is a sign of what might come. And if your response to it is, “our elected far right politicians don’t shit themselves on camera, we’re better than America” then you’re going down the same path we did. When the Patriot Act passed, critics were shutdown, because this is America, and we’re the righteous ones, our leaders are elected and want to see our country succeed. If you time traveled to 2001 and warned people of everything that Trump is doing now, they wouldn’t believe you.
We’re not saying America is better. We’re not saying that we have the answers. We’re saying that your path looks familiar.
Keep ignoring the rise of fascism everywhere and it won’t be long before you face the same fucking problem. That’s the fucking point.
Who’s ignoring it? Or are you talking to yourself?
Are you pretending to be ignorant of the rise of fascist in Europe, or are you actuall ignorant?
I’m neither ignorant of it or ignoring it. If that’s what my comments made you think try reading them again but this time focus.
thrice
Some Americans voted for the fat orange fuck 3 god damned times. That said, didn’t Germany just elect a far right leader as well?
targeted by the radical Catholic organisation
I think any Catholic organization needs to shut the fuck up and sit this one out.
Any religious organisation needs to stop surpressing people
Anyreligiousreligionorganisationneeds to stopsurpressing people
Anybody cathode licking is asking for the 9volts. But they’re getting the 12volts soon.
What’s up with young men and fascism? I feel like fascism (as found outside the ruling class) is less a political philosophy or movement than it is a simple expression of human nature. It’s all so bare and obvious, the othering, scapegoating, rallying around an invented enemy. Hell, it’s so primitive, I bet it predates human divergence. I’ve seen ducks suddenly decide one of their own flock has to die, and a bunch of the males mob them. I doubt it’s THAT far removed.
Young girls, too. Their decrease is even bigger:
Gonneke Stevens, principal investigator of the HBSC research and professor of Youth Welfare at Utrecht University, indicates that in the period 2021-2025 among boys in secondary education, the percentage with a positive attitude towards homosexuality has fallen from 40 to 22 percent. “Girls are more positive about this, but this percentage has also fallen sharply among them. Among girls in secondary education, this is a decrease from 78 to 51 percent.”
probably because it’s pushed on them, and teenagers resent what is pushed on them.
when i was a teenager being gay was horrible and bad, and if you didn’t think that you were rebellious and cool.
now being gay is celebrated and lauded, and teens probably feel rebellious and cool by being against it.
it’s the same with drug use. drug use has dropped a lot among teens because it’s been normalized by adults and it’s not cool.
further there is a huge uptick in gender extremism for both men and women, fueled by social media influencers and the kids love that shit. you have teenage boys thinking they need to be body builders and teenage girls thinking they need butt lifts.
What’s up with young men and fascism?
Society has been silencing young men, driving them away and fascism accepts them. Pretty much the same happened in 1920s.
Social media. It’s unregulated, and allowing people to fall into echo chambers of hate. When all you see is unchallenged radical nonsense you become a radical. The social media companies don’t care what people see, just that they stay on the apps as long as possible. Young men are a particularly vulnerable group - when you feel disenfranchised and worried for the future you’re the perfect target for easy answers from hate groups. And if you get fed more and more of that crap because you watched a bit, it soon becomes all you see unchallenged.
We urgently need social media regulation across Europe - not bans for children (pointless) but complete reform of social media to benefit all ages. Control of the algorithms need to be taken out of the hands of the big US & Chinese tech companies who use to to create addiction and maximise “engagement” to maximise profit, and instead it needs to be run for the benefit of the citizens / user. Public Service Social Media is what we need - much like Public Service Television ensured balanced and healthy TV across Europe in the 20th and early 21st century, we need the same for social media.
Social media is the common factor between the rise in far right hate groups across the UK, US, France, Germany, Italy and more. The changes in the Netherlands are a symptom of the disease, not the disease itself.
Social media is unregulated but also in the hands of billionaires. Most of which absolutely hate democracy and think we, the general population are an obstacle to overcome as they work to replace us with machines.
Social media is practically universal; that does not explain why young men are the most right-swinging group. I don’t think it’s just an emergent situation like you suggest. I think that they are swinging hardest because they are most vulnerable to the intentional manipulation we are all experiencing.
While I think the current corporate structure of social media is fucked, I absolutely 100% do not want the government controlling feeds, content, or communication. That’s a path that will lead to an even worse outcome than the path we’re currently on.
How is the government controlling social media worse than Zuckerberg or Musk doing so?
Think about the current US government.
Well, we are in c/Europe community so that’s not really a government I’m thinking of.
But besides: There’s hardly any difference between US government controlled and US billionaire controlled social media. And frankly, both are orders of magnitudes worse than EU government controlled social media.
See the danger is that you can’t rely on the European government being the same forever, and by the time you realize it’s too late…I mean look at the slow frog boil second rising of v the right in Europe right now
Sure, but even if EU governments turn fully to fascism that would be at worst as terrible as the current status quo with social media in fascist billionaire’s control.
Control as in decide whats allowed and whats not? No thank you.
Control as in enforcing people placing illegal content on the internet, from child pron to hate speech to sexual harrasment to doxxing? Yes please. The regular internet and social media should be as safe as the physical world.
Defining what is illegal content is exactly the issue. A photo of two women kissing might be fine where you live for now, but in Saudi Arabia that would be quite problematic.
Totally, a government choices should be held accountable. Which is why giving the government power is only a good thing in fully functional democracies. I agree. But a Saudi based company is not likely to give you a better treatment as the Saudi government. But either way, on someone else’s platform you’ll have to adhere to someone else’s rules. I like how the Fediverse gives us our own houses with our own rules.
What’s up with young men and fascism?
Brain-rot rots brains. It is that simple.
We’re all subject to the same brain-rot. What’s up with young men and fascism?
https://feddit.org/comment/15064610
Girls have had a larger slump.
That’s interesting! I think there is a larger trend beyond the metric used in this article, which isn’t specifically talking about fascism.
No, we aren’t. Some are much more targeted.
Propagandists are just like any other groomer, they pick their targets carefully. Why would you choose someone like me, a 40 year old woman with decades of established politics and ideology you’d have to fight against when you could pick a young malleable person who’s still actively forming their opinions. I’m a lot more difficult to influence to believe in things that are against my best interests, not to say I’m immune to propaganda just that the bang for your buck is a lot bigger with younger less informed people.
And why would you specifically target a population? Doesn’t that also suggest that young men are especially vulnerable to fascist ideas? Doesn’t answer the question, just moves it slightly.
I bet my hat it’s social media.
I’m sure many will point to specifics, like bigot influencers thriving on controversy. Or, to play devil’s advocate, the forces astroturfing LGBT support that are clearly inauthentic.
But ultimately it’s all because LGBT controversy is too much of a lightning rod for the engagement algorithms to resist. That’s why it’s rising amongst children.
The EU needs to ban or restrict that kind of social media unless it wants to become a network of Nazis.
Let’s hope the Dutch can reverse this trend. The Netherlands and the rest of Europe rank very high in the LGBT Equality Index, second only to South America, while China and India are among the least LGBT-friendly country in the world, with the public opinion in China notably being far ahead of the country’s legal progress regarding LGBT rights.
China is not “among the least LGBT-friendly countries in the world”, even by your own data there are 15 countries in Europe (9 of them in the EU) that are doing the same or worse than China. And because of far-right rising all over europe this is bound to get worse before it gets better, sadly.
In the ‘legal index’, there are just 3 European countries doing worse than China though (Belarus, Russia and Vatican City)
Wow, you’re right. The previous comment made it seem like they’re at the bottom but it’s more like the middle of the range
Tardigrade’s whole schtick is China-bad posts.
Why would they let data, even if they source it themselves, get in the way of their xenophobic bias?
The bigots of every culture in human history have always been conservatives. Always.
There is a valid, reasonable solution to conservatism. We aren’t allowed to talk about it on Lemmy, though.
What do you mean we aren’t allowed to talk about it on Lemmy? I regularly see people calling to kill all Nazis, fascists, etc
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I see a common thread in your removed comments - they were made in .world hosted instances. They’re notoriously squeamish about such things.
Thank you for letting me know. Sounds like .world would rather side with fascists than resist them.
You expected anything else from such enlightened centrism? I don’t bother engaging on certain topics when i notice .world or any other high traffic instance.
He’s alluding to killing conservatives, not Nazis and fascists.
Sorry, what’s the difference?
Oh fuck off. I refuse to believe that you were at the same time smart enough to come to this site and too dumb to not know the answer to that question.
At this point? Honest question. In real life US, what’s the difference?
I mean, like, where are we right now?
In a world where when someone says that theyre conservative it’s because they’re racist, misogynistic, a literal Nazi, transphobia, homophobic, islamaphobic, antisemitic and/or otherwise bigoted - even though they might say it’s because they like fiscal responsibility or that they support business.
What kind of milquestoast reply is that? You were the one that seems to think that there is a difference. So what is it?
My dude, with all that is being done under the conservative flag… If you haven’t started to be screaming mad about it, you are the problem. Then you have become , just like the rest of the republican party a fascist.
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Neither your instance nor the one this community is on is .world, so you can probably talk about it.
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Plant.
Thats rude. Plants are a source of oxygen, not a waste of it.
I’m not a “liberal”. That’s a term used by conservatives because conservatives are unintelligent liars who pretend it means the opposite of conservatism. The opposite of conservative is progressive.
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The sad reality is that the left has been focusing on the wrong issues for some time now and when people are getting really worried about housing and healthcare they don’t see politicians waving rainbow flags as the people that can help them. The far-right obviously is not going to fix anything either but in tough times people look for strong leaders that offer simple solutions so more and more people are slowly drifting to the right.
I’m not sure what you mean. What do you think the Dutch left has been focusing on and what do you think they should have been focusing on instead?
It’s not exactly the same everywhere so I’m not talking about Dutch left specifically but about the left in general. In many places they have been focusing on identity politics instead of income inequality and related issues. In Spain for example Podemos was more worried about gender violence and trans issues than jobs for young people. They eventually lost most of their support and were replaced in the coalition by Sumar which is more focused on issues like housing and healthcare. You could see this clearly in recent elections in Andalusia were the far-left parties focused on those issues and did really well preventing far-right Vox from registering any gains. Identity politics are of course important but I would say the shift needed to happen 10 years ago when priorities of voters started charging. When people feel secure the wellbeing of minorities is their main concern but when times get tough they want politicians to focus on issues that affect them personally. Mamdani is another example. Look what he is running on (and DSA program in general) and look what Kamala Harris run on. From wikipedia:
“Harris’s domestic platform was similar to Biden’s on most issues.[15] She supported national abortion protections, LGBT+ rights, stricter gun control, and legislation to address climate change.”
vs
“His platform included support for free city buses and a rent freeze in rent-stabilized housing.[87][88] Mamdani also wanted the city government to operate five grocery stores”
Okay I’ll bite; Immigation yes actually
The Dutch population has been increasing by a steady 0.28% year on year [1] While the birth rate has been stable since the baby boomers at 1.6~ [2]
Dutch immigration predominantly from economic migrants (aka expats) have economic tax breaks making the city centres mostly English speaking. This makes it very difficult for left wing that gain memberships from universities to interact with the lower class that have been driven out of cities by center right market capitalism and a growing additional English speaking bourgeois class.
Center right have exasperated this by refusing to build more housing, the center left have gaslight by using the government’s capitalist policy-to-economic-growth calculations.
Now we have a left with an identity crisis a center that’s very very happy with the economic system of extraction and a growing far-right that talks about Sociaal Rechts tegen de Linkse elite. Go to the book shop and you find “left” authors who live in the expensive city center: actual book: “De Domheid Regeert” where the author, self proclaimed left, complains about stupidity of the working class. Of course the far right love to associate immigrants with refugees because colour. And create the standard National Socialist talking points of nuclear white families and the dangers of LHBTI, further dividing the working class from the actual Left (PvdD SP
Bij1)Downvoters: I’m interested to hear how population increase will enact material progress to the Dutch lower class in housing and job security in a country that has a higher density than Japan [3].
P.S. I’m following the policies set by SP who ask for stricter rules and reasonable limits for economic immigrants, to be clear these policies are vastly different from those of fascists who strive for remigration/ isolationism/ turning down refugees [4].
However, the last left-wing cabinet in the Netherlands was in 1973, and the last cabinet with significant left wing participation ended in 2002. So 24 years of center/right coalition. Seems people have to be pretty much brainwashed to believe some left wing party is the cause of their suffering.
I didn’t say the issue is that people blame the left for all their problems. I said they don’t think the left has any solutions. It sounds like in Netherlands the center/right coalitions also didn’t solve their problems so they are slowly drifting father to the right. Not because far-right is so great at solving problems but because the narrative they have is easy to understand and it appeals to people in tough times.
they think that because… they don’t.
what serious policy proposals has the left had in the past 20 years?
the left basically floats around being ‘we’re not as bad as the other guys but don’t expect much from us’ and only seems to succeed where the right fucks up. They don’t have a postie policy agenda and they haven’t had one since the 1980s. and that’s not how you get votes, build coalitions, or govern effectively.
and it’s systematic across many western countries.
Yes, the left is basically just pushing back on what the right is doing. The right tries to privatize healthcare and public transport and the left is against it. They sometimes handle the economy better than the right but they don’t propose any real solutions, just try to keep the current system running smoothly. They stop short of actually fixing anything. In Spain they managed to pass a flawed criminal law reform that changed definition of rape and flawed policy that allowed for rent control but I’m still waiting for them to bank single use vapes - it’s apparently very complicated thing to do…
yeah and that’s why they suck and people don’t like them.
they don’t have a positive vision. their entire platform is ‘we’re not the other guys, they are bad’.
they don’t lead. they just make excuses. and yeah, they don’t fix anything.
What we need is leftists who… do something. Turns out… that’s very very appealing to voters. Just look at Mandami in NYC… guy articulated a clear vision and is executing it… and the voters adore him. But a lot of leftists HATE him because they… are so unable to get their heads out of their own asses and put form a legitimate and achievable platform of reform.
The problem with most modern left-wing parties is they just… want to get into power and do nothing with the power.
The problem with most modern left-wing parties is they just… want to get into power and do nothing with the power.
I think that’s a problem with most establishment parties everywhere. The pact between voters and ruling class was broken. Most career politicians don’t serve us any more. In EU you can at least argue that they want to preserve the system and uphold the law but everything is collapsing too fast and they are too divided and weak to stop it.
the right seems to be a lot more effective in enacting their agenda…
Seems like something is missing in this explanation though. If people don’t blame left wing, and are just voting right to find a solution to their problems, then why is LGBT support plummeting (topic or this article)? There is no relationship between LGBT rights and the housing shortage.
because it’s all anyone talks about on the media/internet.
i mean you’re here on lemmy… can you go here a day or an hour without someone going on and on about how LGBT is superior and straight people are shitty and awful?
What do you think that kind of media environment does to people? it doesn’t really win them over to your side…
Because right wing ideology is a package. Conservative politics claim that traditional values are the way to go and that everything was better when everyone was white and Christian, women stayed in the kitchen and gays couldn’t marry. You can see it right now in Spain were young kids are suddenly supporting Franco claiming that “back in the day” everyone had a job, there was no crime and everyone was happy. It obviously not true but young people believe it and buy with the entire “traditional values” package. Attacks on LGBT people are also up in Spain because of that even though the main concern of young people is housing.
the far right at least acknowledge the problems. the left basically refuses to acknowledge them because they have invested so much in the ‘men are the source of all evil’ narrative.
and young men basically see ‘why would i support people that hate me.’
and weirdly enough when ‘left wing’ politicians focus on economic issues and not social issues… young men tend to support them… weird.
Did you get this idea of left/right politics completely from TikTok or something?
yeah, because that’s where the kids are and that’s what they are learning.
you can mock it all you want, but it’s their primary source of information about the world.
i find it hilarious how the media ‘doesn’t get it’ why young people are this way… well because the media is full of old farts who they don’t listen to. they also think anyone over 30 is old. i have four teeange nephews… everything is tiktok and discord. there is nothing else. even instagram is considered weird and old to them.
and they are anti-progressive and pro traditionalism. they think lgbt people are annoying and whiny and get unfair advantages in life, and they are very angry that everyone blames them for societies problems because they are boys, when all they are trying to do is figure shit out, and nobody is helping them. and when they ask for help, they get mocked and told to go fuck themselves because they are ‘privileged white boys’.
why would not want to go back to a society where they were treated better? nobody has any empathy for them or their problems and they know it.
Yes, the retirement age is 65 for men and 60 for women. I think historically the explanation was that women spend more time taking care of children or something. Today it’s hard to justify so younger men are often complaining about it.
and they are anti-progressive and pro traditionalism. they think lgbt people are annoying and whiny and get unfair advantages in life, and they are very angry that everyone blames them for societies problems because they are boys, when all they are trying to do is figure shit out, and nobody is helping them. and when they ask for help, they get mocked and told to go fuck themselves because they are ‘privileged white boys’.
Lmao, a couple dumbfuck teenagers thinking they’re oppressed = leftists blame men as the source of all evil 😂
Yes, the retirement age is 65 for men and 60 for women. I think historically the explanation was that women spend more time taking care of children or something. Today it’s hard to justify so younger men are often complaining about it.
Was this supposed to be the example of leftists calling men the source of all evil? Even a screenshot from the nichest corners of Tumblr would’ve been better than this.
Lmao, a couple dumbfuck teenagers thinking they’re oppressed = leftists blame men as the source of all evil 😂
this is exactly why they are the way they are. you don’t think they are people. your replies here are exactly why they are becoming conservative… because conservatives don’t shit all over them them for existing.
It’s simple dude. If I got up in your face and called you a stupid piece of shit… then asked you to vote for my side… you’d want? be happy to do that?
if you want young men to vote for your side, stop calling them ‘dumbfuck teenagers’.
If you called me a stupid piece of shit, and I was somebody who was claiming to be oppressed for being a male teenager, you’d completely be in the right. You would knock some sense into me as well maybe.
And claiming that I’m dehumanizing teenagers is fucking hilarious 🤣. Are you a male rights activist perchance? And are you going to show me leftists (not Xitter/Tumblr liberals) claiming that “Men are the source of all evil” or not?
You are entirely missing the point, but it doesn’t matter because you won’t see it anyway. You’re so blinded by your own righteousness and hate, that anything you do is correct, and anything anyone else does is wrong.
and young men basically see ‘why would i support people that hate me.’
I think this is true mostly in more sexist societies where men lost a lot of privileges they traditionally had and are now pushing back (USA and Spain for example). In Poland this “all men are evil” wave of feminism wasn’t that visible and now the resentment is more about focusing too much on women issues instead of equality (like “it’s unfair that women get to retire earlier”). It’s still there but it’s definitely secondary issue. At the same time Poland was always more xenophobic than western Europe so immigration is the main issue drummed up by the far right there. It’s the same mix but different proportions.
wait, women get to retire earlier?
Yes, the retirement age is 65 for men and 60 for women. I think historically the explanation was that women spend more time taking care of children or something. Today it’s hard to justify so younger men are often complaining about it.
The problem isn’t that people are LGBT. The problem is that a small section of them want to ram the whole fucking rainbow flag waving pride and “I’m special, these are my pronouns” bullshit down the throats of people whether they want it or not. That breeds resentment in people to the point it can make otherwise supportive people remove that support.
This comment, the context of this thread, and the fact that it got him banned is pure art.
I’m tired of hetero relationships being shoved down our throats.
Mickey and Minnie Mouse. Superman and Lois Lane. Shrek and Fiona. The breeder mindset bullshit being forced upon us whether we want it or not. /s
As long as people are getting imprisoned or killed for being gay or anything besides cis and straight, you can sit the fuck down and shut up. The problem is you.
The problem is you.
Me too! Me too!
Wow, it’s the queers fault for living their life, not the fascists forcing ads, bots, and laws against us. Such a shit take.
Nobody is ramming anything down anyone’s throat, why is it always described in such a sexually violent way? Weirdos.
Just let them exist and be themselves, goddamn. It’s so easy.
That breeds resentment
If you’re getting resentful because trans people don’t need to hide who they are, then maybe it’s time to look inwards.
I’ll be the devils advocate here and say it’s not the people, but how they receive information. People start to believe whatever the popular narrative is, and treat it as a baseline truth.
If you repeat something enough times, it becomes the truth. That’s what Internet has become. OP probably can’t even explain what they mean here, cause it’s just something they’ve just heard many times.
It depends on where you live.
If you live in bumnfuck ohio, are you seeing this? No.
But if you live in a progressive city… it is shoved down your throat. And it wasn’t 10 years ago. Never once in 2010s was I ever accused of bigotry or lectured about pronouns, and pride month was pretty chill. Now… it’s pride year, every other person agonzied about pronouns, and I get accused of being a trans-hating bigot like every other week.
There is a huge social change going on, mostly fueled by social media, that turns everything into a battleground. I can’t be like ‘lgbt cool, that’s nice’ anymore. I have ot be foaming at the mouth pro lgbt and anti-conservative, OR ELSE I’m anti-lgbt.
It’s the extremism. You only see it on the conservative side, but it every much exists on the progressive side. Especially in progressive communities full of rabid angry people who incessantly need to virtue signal over social issues like this.
Thing is, my entire life I have been pro lgbt, and in my younger years I actively worked with gay and trans folks without issue (2000s, 2010s). The past few years whomever, people actively seek out conflict with me, in real life, over lgbt stuff. It’s insane. If you don’t think it’s beeing ‘shoved down your throat’ in a hostile manner… well you must not live in a progressive city, or you are very lucky, or you’re just willfully blind to it.
I’ve even sadly had a few friends I have had lost because they have been so rabid and hateful and miserable, in the name of leftist virtue signalling bullshit. But I guess you maybe don’t think anyone who is pro-lgbt can be miserable and hateful and awful?
I grew up in a conservative place being told being gay was awful, and was constantly accused of being gay and I had to prove I was straight. Now I live in a progressive place and I’m being told being straight and a guy is awful constantly and I have to prove I’m not anti-trans. It’s fucking miserable and I don’t want to interact with either kind of person anymore… and there are VERY few spaces I can just exist without this topic coming up as some kind of shit test being shoved in my face. Because so many folks are witch-hunting and need to know if you are ‘ON MY SIDE’. Like if I meet a new person and they aren’t shoving their politics down my throat and seeking explicit agreement on every issue… I’m shocked and surprised. because where I live… that’s kind of the default for a lot of people living here. I can’t go to the dog park without people going on about lgbt or other social issues. I’ve literally been asked about my dogs pronouns… that’s how fucking insane some folks are where I live… but a bunch of them have dog psychologists who they are paying $1000s of dollars to tell them their dog is trans because it makes them feel special.
anyways, i hope you live in a more chill city. but where i live folks are very much insane and have taken lgbt+ stuff to absurd extremes, especially the past few years. Nobody asked me my dogs pronouns in 2018.
How far up your list of problems can that possibly be?
This is always my argument for people like this. There are SO many things wrong right now. I get asked what I think about it and I always respond that I have far more important things to worry about, like affordability, retiring, buying a house, etc. So trans/other queer folk’s existance does not bother me. It usually shuts them up.
I just say their existence doesn’t bother me because if all those other things weren’t issues I would still think people can love and have sex with and be whoever they want.
I always say your boss is very happy to have you fight meaningless fights and not him or her
Let me know when people stop murdering people for being LGBTQ+ and we can talk. Until then, I suggest you sit the fuck down and fucking learn a little bit about human rights.
I used to think this too. But I promise you, we’re actively being persecuted in this country. I’ve had to bury friends this year. What have you been doing?
Amazing impression of a bigot with no self awareness. I won’t be Poe’d twice in one week.
Please, just shut up.
Even if that’s true, that’s not a reason you support parties that take away their rights…
Also social media is responsible for that kind of image of LGBT folks. I’ve talked to plenty, and most of them are sweet people. The activity pub, the protocol that runs this platform has several of their developers that are LGBT.
Gay marriage is the biggest societal improvement since the end of feudalism and aristocracy. Why aren’t you excited?
where i live people are very angry that polygamy isn’t legalized and go to the city council and given speeches about how is monogamy is oppressive and cruel.
