I have no idea what there is not to understand about this…and why it’s mostly men complaining about “protecting women’s spaces”, lol.
This might upset some people, and you know what? Good.
If this upsets you, at least the others will know and the trash can take itself out.
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Hello based dept.
I need to yoink this too. It’s even better than ‘have the day you voted for’.
Yoink, I’m totally stealing this, thanks!
Have at it. Found it here on Lemmy long ago.
why it’s mostly men complaining about “protecting women’s spaces”
It is called paternalist protectivism and it is a form of blatant sexism. Trump himself said “I am going to protect women (ie from trans women) either they want it or not”.
It is the same form of disregard for consent we usually call “rape culture”.
Trump himself said “I am going to protect women (ie from trans women) either they want it or not”.
I think this was him ensuring the girls he/his kids/future generations rape(d) were/won’t be transgender.
the notion that trans women are disruptive in the bathroom is so mindbogglingly absurd considering we spend all our lives trying to be as invisible as we can in the bathroom or not using public bathrooms at all out of fear.
It’s not fair
One of the things that scares me about the bathroom ban is now cis male predators can enter bathrooms saying they’re trans men. If we just play the numbers… there’s way more men than trans people. The risk is greater.
Nah the bathroom invaders will just barge in with a MAGA hat, no gender laundering required. Do you feel safe yet.
The goal is also for cis women to suffer. They hate all women.
Never forget that transphobes targeted a cis woman, Imane Khelif, who won gold at the Olympics. Many of the more prominent ones stand by their bullying years after.
It’s always been about making women they view as lesser suffer.
I’m 6 foot with PCOS, I’m a target too, I won’t forget. We need to shame these people in public for all the lives they’ve ruined.
This sounds absurd on the face of it.
Then I think about how awful these loud and proud transphobes are, and then I’m just sad realizing there’s WAY more than a non-zero chance of them patrolling bathrooms in their zealous crusade. Or just to use it as an excuse to assault women.
Fuck.
This is not a probabilities issue. There have been a number of incidents, and they all follow the same pattern:
It is the transphobes who follow around actual or imagined trans people around malls, and confront them even nowhere near toilets. They tend to say “I will prevent you from going into a female bathroom, to protect women and children”. Then they text their friends and soon there is a number of people surrounding outnumbered trans people.
There have been beatings like this, in one case they even charged the trans person. It seems they had the original perpetrator on paper but as soon as they found out the victim was trans they struck through the name and charged the trans person instead.
I won’t go into how the current situation in the US waters down the right of self defense for trans people, because it wasn’t the original topic. But it happens. About your actual point: pogroms will now be an everyday reality in the US, to the surprise of none.
Transphobes and their centrist enablers are criminals. Genocide perpetrators more specifically. They aren’t innocent or misled. We all got the same lesson that scapegoating leads to pogroms and genocide. They just hate trans people enough they don’t care to be nazis.
To be clear, I am not surprised and know of far too many such incidents of transphobes either harassing women near/at/in restrooms and trans women being arrested for self defense in cases where they CLEARLY were the victim.
Pogroms will happens. Giant piece of shit Martin Niemöller mentions trade unionists and Jews in his poem, but nary a thought for trans victims of the nazis… one of the earliest groups targeted.
It’s not IF they come for our trans brothers and sisters, but when.
No, trans men face harassment too. This narrative is completely made up. No trans person imposes themselves onto a public bathroom before they get mocked at the birth-sex bathroom.
So I was saying trans men face harassment too, and this is because they don’t want AFAB to transition into men. It waters down their fantasized supremacy, shrinks the dating pool for incels, and takes a number of wombs out of the production of new slaves and soldiers.
The narrative also helps to bully non-traditional women too, so there is no logic in it save male supremacy. It seems deceptively centrist and palatable because they poured billions on propaganda research to get it right, but there is not an iota in this narrative that isn’t carefully designed to install male chauvinist dictatorship.
Exactly. This stuff is terrifying. These bans really don’t “protect” anyone. It’s almost like protection isn’t the point…
It never was.
Always just enforcing gender norms that put these loud and proud transphobes on the top of some mythical societal ladder that doesn’t involve the Epstein class lording over us all.
Yep!! Absolutely 0% about protecting people
look at how the SAME people who are viruently transphobic and pushing the “protect women” stuff are also either silent or outright defending both the cornell 7 or defending the cis guy disrupting the wnba
Yes. This is so true it hurts…
Fuck anyone who defends any kind of rape. I hate that with a burning fucking passion. The victim is NEVER to blame, no matter fucking what. It’s always the rapist’s fault. And it’s scary that some people don’t understand that…
Fuck this world.Those defending the guys are the tame ones sadly. It’s the true nightmares putting out death threats the the VICTIM. Tough to be fair, I’m sure that Venn diagram is basically one circle.
Speaking with a stranger in a bathroom 🤨
Earlier this year I was in a busy bathroom and this person had a cute shirt with birds on it. I complimented the shirt. She randomly told me to check out a bird park in a faraway city. I liked that shirt.
Women do it pretty often :)
Never seen it
I’ve had a lot of short bathroom chats, mostly like in the meme, with other women in the bathroom. It’s always nice to throw a compliment at a good pair of earrings or help a mom juggling all the things with the door. That kinda thing.
I get really nervous whenever anyone talks to me in a bathroom. Like, my anxiety there gets boosted to x1000, and I just want to finish fast so I can get outta there because I just feel like I’m doing as if I were making a fool of myself.
Though if I have to help with something (idk, something of theirs fall into the ground), I’ll stand over it. But just because I love being helpful. Then I’ll be again like Bocchi (from Bocchi the Rock!)
It’s weird to talk to strangers in general, and to compliment a stranger, in a bathroom… Maybe it’s a cultural thing
Could be! The local culture around my parts tends to be cold and standoffish, but women tend to look out for one another still.
If you think your distaste Is actually due to cultural differences and it’s something so stupid as a bathroom comment maybe don’t say it? Or is it normal to be a rude ignorant asshole in your culture?
Did I touch a nerve? I just pointed out a thing that’s strange to me, as people do on social media. I didn’t expect to get this kind of reaction. If anything you’re the rude ignorant asshole here
I usually at least nod hello. It’s an American thing I think, to greet everybody.
Try it, it’ll change your life.
I used to have the worst peeshyness or whatever you call it=> can’t pee around other people at the urinals.
I managed to solve it as follows: say it out loud “oh pee already” to yourself.
You’d be very surprised how many people immediatly talk courage into you.
“Ah don’t worry about it, we all have it, take your time”.
(Of course take this advice with common sense, if you feel unsafe for a valid reason gtfo there)
The last time I spoke with a stranger in the bathroom, I was washing my hands after taking a leak, and a guy walked in and said, “Pissed all over your hands, did ya?”
And then he proceeded to use the bathroom and leave without washing his hands.
I do want it to be clear that I did not piss all over my hands. I just wash my hands after using the restroom.
You know, like a person that isn’t a fucking disgusting freak.
That’s on that other person to feel shame, for not washing their hands but even more importantly. For giving such utterly useless and childish remarks.
Walk with your head held high, washer of hands. You stand with the warriors who fought in the covid wars.
I don’t really have pee shyness, just regular shyness. I could never do that xd
Yeah, I have “I’m not at home with two locked doors in between me and the rest of the world while I’m being as vulnerable as I’ll ever be while awake” shyness.
The transphobe, weirdly, thinks this example is an interaction between a man and a woman in a bathroom. And they can straight faced say #NotAllMen while they do it, too.
The terf ideology is incoherent.
This thread reminds me of Reddit
There will always be assholes in comment sections, I’m really happy to finally see some visible pushback on those asshole opinions!
This place is like Reddit in a lot of ways because it’s the same kind of forum setup. But that also means we can shape our own communities to be what we want instead of having to bend to the already established subreddits.
YEP
And not in a good way, tbh. Still, I think I see more positivity than not here, and that’s importantThis was the first comment I saw and I cannot adequately express the immediate dissapointment i felt
This is all about getting laws on the book that are different for men and women. The law is supposed to be blind. Your gender should have no bearing on how it investigates, prosecute, litigates, judges, and sentences an individual. If they can define what a women is by law, they can define how a woman is to behave and be treated. Sadly somehow we’ve been tricked into wanting the laws for women ourselves. That’s what the whole trans panic is about. Suddenly, a women will be defined by her ability to and willingness to be pregnant. Yall have been warned. Some high profile cases have gotten dangerously close to breaking how the law sees men and women. And that’s the last thing women should want because those laws will give the state more control over women in the same way the state can control children.
Some high profile cases have gotten dangerously close to breaking how the law sees men and women. And that’s the last thing women should want because those laws will give the state more control over women in the same way the state can control children.
The law has never been blind to gender. I’m not sure how this is a warning when it was never neutral to begin with?
On paper it was moving towards seeing women as more equal. We are talking a step back on both sides of the isle. (In my opinion.) Protecting trans women, protects everyone.
Protecting trans women, protects everyone.
<3
Okay, I honestly don’t entirely comprehend your comment, so please bear with me here…
The law is supposed to be blind, yes, I agree wholeheartedly with that. I believe in bodily autonomy, I believe everyone should have a right to their body, no matter fucking what. Things like criminalizing abortion are based on misogyny, discrimination, hate, utter fucking stupidity and the desires of old, white cis men to control women’s bodies.
I hate it when governments do that. I find it oppressive, quite frankly, and I think it’s plain wrong.
Now, here’s what I don’t understand about your comment…Sadly somehow we’ve been tricked into wanting the laws for women ourselves.
That’s what the whole trans panic is about.
Yall have been warned.I really hope I’m misunderstanding this…but are you implying that these oppressive actions by oppressive governments…are the fault of trans people?
I absolutely despise the state having more control over women and blaming it on trans people…just seems wrong and a bit silly.Again, I’m tired and I may be totally misunderstanding this. I hope I am. Please correct me, I am not the brightest 🙏
Also, not trying to pick a fight. Just genuinely curious. Sorry for the dumb question.No, I’m saying that these bathroom and sport laws, aren’t about 100% about keeping Trans women out of bathrooms and sports. (that’s just icing on the oppression of women goal of the right) The only federal laws currently on the books that care about gender are ones that say women must be treated equally. Now take away the safe guards of Roe v Wade provided for men and women. (very few people understood what that law ment.) RvW said the government under equality doctrine of the government has no standing to know what men discuss with and treatment received from their medical providers. So now with RvW overturned that standing is removed. Now here’s the trick, men for the most part are not going to the doctor to get medical treatment for something seen as illegal. Trans women are being used as a counter weight to say see men are doing something illegal to abuse women in bathrooms and sports. We need to fight to go the other way to the other extreme. Gender neutral bathrooms. Less separating and men and women in sports; mainly in amateur competitions. (Yes the more physical the sport there needs to be rules and more opportunities for mix gender and separate divisions/leagues to accommodate every individual and skill level) This also includes crime. Men and women should never been seen as different. Because of they are, that never ends well for women and the lgbtq community.
Right, so I basically completely misunderstood your entire comment. Thanks so much for clarifying that 💜
You make some very good points and I agree with you on them. Really, thanks for the clarification! <3I try to remove the oppressed from the narrative asap when talking about macro issues because it requires people to step outside their demographics. When focusing so hard on one aspect you miss the big picture. If they can define what a women is, (meaning drawing a line to disqualify trans women.) that will quickly allow them to draw another line. Are women born without a uterus still a women? Is a woman who’s masculine looking still a woman? Is a woman with no desire to be a mother, a woman? These questions force anti Trans women to think.
I agree - and that’s not even a speculative possibility either, they’ve already started out in the open for everyone to see…
Look at the Olympics, they used to (without any issues) only require trans women to show 2 years on HRT in medical records, and a recent blood test showing hormone levels within average cis women ranges… Then after Trump and co, now that was scrapped. Now, they test for the SRY gene (a test that is widely condemned as disproportionate). This means anyone who has the SRY gene (which as far as I’m aware only activates once in the womb, and is what causes the development of male genitals) is immediately disqualified from taking part in women’s sports
This obviously targets trans women regardless of hormones and medical history, but also targets any cis woman who is found to have the SRY gene. It’s rarer, sure, and terfs would argue that can’t happen with their basic biology they learnt at 6yrs old… But it is possible for the SRY gene to translocate from the Y chromosome onto an X chromosome in the womb… Causing a cis woman who grew up her entire life as a woman with no difference in sex characteristics, with XX Chromosomes, to be found with the SRY gene even if it never activated during development… And the Olympics even recognised this, and just shrugged their shoulders. So in the eyes of the Olympic rules, they don’t even consider cis women who may have the gene (and be unknowingly intersex) to be eligible women. All for the sake of “fairness”
Honestly, I feel as though if we just mandated that everyone should have to get a chromosome test, there’ll be so many cis people who find out that they’re intersex that the whole culture war aimed at trans people falls apart because they no longer can stand on the pedestal of “the majority” and become so much more aware that sex and chromosomes aren’t as black and white (or bio-essentialist) as some may think…
Honestly, I feel as though if we just mandated that everyone should have to get a chromosome test, there’ll be so many cis people who find out that they’re intersex that the whole culture war aimed at trans people falls apart because they no longer can stand on the pedestal of “the majority” and become so much more aware that sex and chromosomes aren’t as black and white (or bio-essentialist) as some may think…
I love your energy, but this would require conservatives to show integrity and consistency in acknowledging the truth. We all know at this point that there is no truth for them but what they want, and whatever they have to say or do at any given time to get it. The tests would happen behind closed doors, the results would be them saying it’s whatever they want it to be based on their judgement of the person at a glance, and everything else would be the dog and pony show to distract from or justify this happening.
Very true, though I think it would bring a lot more people who are current fence-sitting, or just don’t know anything about trans people/healthcare and prone to fall for conservative lies, into the know on just how silly the transphobic rhetoric is
There will definitely still be a lot who will die on the hill they’ve created, or actively try to make up new lies or even just repeat their old ones with the large billionaire backing they have… Confirmation bias is a hell of a thing, as well as just the deep hatred they hold… But I’d hope it would at least make their bad faith arguments way less acceptable and fallen for by the average person.
I could also be just being hopelessly optimistic of an alternate timeline that won’t happen anyways… Who knows I guess
there’ll be so many cis people who find out that they’re intersex
Would be nice to witness that, even though it would be shrugged off, I’m pretty sure
Doubt it, at least as the tansphobic right continue trying to restrict rights, and the people who thought they were safe from it suddenly find themselves othered. Such as if a terf athlete suddenly found out she had the SRY, or XY chromosomes (via one of the intersex varieties), and are suddenly banned from the sports she thought she was allowed into… I wouldn’t wish anyone to have to deal with that, despite how many of them are pushing that exact thing… But I doubt they’d be able to just shrug it off if it started to effect them because of the erosion of rights they thought they were safe from.
Sadly some people don’t care about, or at the very least don’t keep up with news on, the erosion of minority rights if they’re secluded from it… Until they suddenly find themselves in the minority
I’m suddenly reminded of the “I’ll wipe my hands on my pants/penis” incident.
The what now 😭
There’s no way I can do this story justice, but it was Sophie from Mars getting horribly misheard by a local Tory councilwoman something. Trying to track down the vid, it was hilarious.
Unfortunately the video I was talking about with Sophie herself went private because of reasons, but this is another video about the event.
That’s depressing, but Sophie’s response along the lines of that Tory dumbass couldn’t think of anything but dick was nice
Some women feel like a female toilet is one of the very few “safe spaces” women have, and that allowing pre-op mtf transgender women negates that safe space.
In a world where women are unable to feel safe in public, it’s kind of understandable why they would feel as though the one place they managed to establish must be maintained.
My personal view is, toilets and change rooms just aren’t safe spaces. For men or women. Cis men get assaulted in toilets all the time. A cis male could SA a woman in a toilet. I don’t think transgender people increase the risk significantly.
I’ve never felt threatened by trans men or women, they always have cautious but inherently good energy. It’s always the bigots and they love projecting.
They don’t increase the risk and those women who want to gatekeep a fucking bathroom are TERFs.
Feminists don’t want them either
Trying to keep others out of an essential public space is freakish.
That’s is what TERF means, yes.
I’m agreeing and bolstering your comment, sorry if it came off blunt and like I was correcting you!
Fuck it. The time to politely engage on this issue is long gone. Even if we come off as aggressive, the pushback needs to be extreme.
Hah oh I feel this very much - I have a reputation around Lemmy for being the meanie feminist kill joy. I just also recognize im_fine_sandy and I’m pretty sure they’re an ally :)
Not sure I’m an ally but certainly not an adversary. I think I’m ambivalent but try to understand everyone’s perspective.
Eh I usually recognize usernames if they are particularly ornery and so far I’ve only seen pretty chill comments from you. I’ll take not an adversary and maybe we can convert you into being an ally :)
You are. And all here for it! ;)
Feminist? Absolutely and that’s a great thing. The world need waay more feminists.
Killjoy tho? Not in the slightest.One of the few good things my narcissist mother did was instill strong feminist values in me from a very young age.
As a now old, I just keep getting angrier that society is backsliding on this somehow. Fucking Gilead.
Awww <3
Which is why they should be unisex single rooms and not weird gathering holes where everyone can hear you shit.
The world is so bad, right now; it’s hard to just figure out how to make it through the day. Don’t take my personal audience away, too.
My understanding is that by going into the bathroom we only increase the risk of a trans person getting assaulted
The first half genuinly warms my heart.
The second half has been discussed here, in the comments already. While not explicitly heartwarming, it is unfortunately very true.
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I’ve never had a trans person cat call me, sexually harass me, rape me, tell me to smile, tell me I should get in his car, tell me I should suck his dick, put his hand on my thigh, press his body into mine on the bus.
What’s upsetting is you dismissing the real dangers women face in order to turn the conversation from trans issues into crying about your own gender.
Don’t want women to be scared of men? Call out other men instead of scolding women for being scared.
I’ve known many trans people. Not once has one of them harassed me in any way. Men, on the other hand…
Yep! I’ve also never seen trans+ people online aggressively comment on threads making the convo about them or comment minimising and dismissing SA and VAWG.
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Who’s scolding women?
Men. It’s as easy as that.
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I’d rather generalize than be caught alone with a strange man.
The bear wins again!
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So you should be racist too.
No need, you’re being racist right here.
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It’s not sexist to acknowledge the truth that the majority of rapists are men.
Statistics show men are constant threat to women. It’s not even the same, and I say this as a cis man.
Thank you for saying the truth. 1 in every 4 women in the US have been raped.
*at least. Statistics on SA are almost certainly underreported.
Thank you for saying so, you’re completely correct.
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The answer is to let people use the restroom that they feel fits the best and prosecute the people who predate on others.
It’s not difficult and it’s not confusing.
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I also have sympathy for the cis woman who lives her life thinking she’s safer with a bear than a man, feeling upset that there might be a person with a penis in a place that used to be a safe space for her.
First off - how dare you take that man vs bear debate and frame women choosing the bear as TERFs.
Second - Restrooms aren’t safe spaces, men have gone into restrooms to assault women before and will continue to do so no matter what sign is on the door.
Third - giving in to our unfounded fears and punishing innocents for our own lack of education isn’t an option. It shouldn’t be an option. Trans women are not inherently dangerous to cis women.
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No one is generalizing all men. Statistically, men are a FAR greater threat to women than vice versa. Additionally, men are a far greater threat to cis women than trans women are. It isn’t even close. It isn’t something intrinsic to being a man, or all men, but it is due to a set of societal standards that value men above women.
If you hear women being afraid of men, don’t take it personally. I am afraid of men I don’t know not because all men are dangerous, but because you cannot tell a predator by looking at them. Again, it’s not all men. No one is saying that. It’s just the vast majority of sexual predators are men, and women are statistically much more likely to be in danger from a man. I have been sexually assaulted, and I won’t spare a second thought for the idea that protecting myself might hurt another man’s feelings.
Not all men but always a man.
In this thread: you.
always a man
That’s not true and you know it. Don’t spread misinformation; be better than that.
🙄
The vast majority of perpetrators are men and it’s not even close. There, happy?
Yes, much better. Thank you for being better than the one spreading misinformation.
Who’s spreading misinformation…?
The majority of the statements I’ve seen here (not the ones from the now-banned users) have been nothing but truthful
I hope you have this same energy towards comments supporting rapists and don’t save being pedantic for women expressing anger at rape.
Oh no how will you cope with facts?
bitching
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Well you did literally use it to describe a woman so…
You know that word has connotations when you use it to describe women.
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Using derogatory terms aimed at cis and trans women isn’t being gender neutral.
Be better.
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I understand, don’t generalize <group of people> but generalize <differen group of people> instead
Well, trans people make up about 1% of the population while men make up about 50% - there’s a lot more bad apples in the 50% than the 1% statistically.
Does the number of bad apples make it more okay to generalize about the whole group?
yes
Noooooo! Don’t you dare use facts and numbers to destroy my bias.
Yep just playing the numbers makes it clear
Who said anything about generalizations?
The entire post is the polar opposite generalization of two different groups. Or what point do you think this is making here?
You obviously don’t know what a generalization is. That men are threats to women doesn’t mean that each man is threatening.
