12 Monkeys s2e5 “Bodies of Water”
After finishing Fringe, decided to watch 12 Monkeys, since writer/director Terry Matalas wrote season 3 of Picard. Not to mention cramming the 3 male leads into various parts. Most notably Todd Stashwick (Deacon) as Captain Shaw. Unsurprisingly, Matalas is doing similar with his work on VisionQuest. Better than expected so far.
My old man Hot Take: New trek (with the exception of Lower Decks) has damaged the chances of more Trek.
People just wanted a solid TNG/VOY/DS9 era type show, focused on single episode arcs that were thinly vieled philosophy discussions/elements from old sci-fi pulp transposed into the Trek world.
They didn’t want Netflix slow burners that deal with gritty personal issues like rape, and torture. Don’t get me wrong those things were mentioned in other shows, but in the safety of strength, group processing, metaphor, and 1990s carpetted sets. Not in disorienting darkness with someone portraying complex trauama whilst still a captive victim for multiple episodes.
Trek is supposed to help people process modernity. Not hold them under by re-traumatising them with a gritty real Netflix takes.
WHEN Miles O’Brien is tortured it happens on a bright set and we all joke about it because it’s an impossible kind of sci-fi torture. When discovery does it, it’s a guy in a dark cell confessing the Klingons raped him repeatedly.
We needed good guys, not good guys who tortured a slug whilst being victims themselves and it’s all a mirrror universe episode - because god everyone loved those right? \s
It was the classic “We don’t want to listen to fans, we want to break the limits and leave a mark”… Well good fucking job. Literally if they made Star Trek, only the ships were tank shaped, and the Klingons were suddendly going by the name “Iraqis” I don’t think I’d even notice. The concepts/franchises are just damaged now. They Trumped it up into something it’s not.
God thank you. A perfect example of this was Picard season 2.
What they did was go back to the bad timeline and showed everything we’re doing wrong and shoved our noses into. I remember them looking at the forest fires and the tear coming down and she said it’s already starting. Fucking thanks. I already feel like shit about the state of our planet, thanks for making me feel worse about the future instead of optimistic.
They tackled climate change in TNG elegantly. The realized warp technology was destroying an area of space. Geordi was against it because he didn’t want to admit his life’s dedication might actually be hurting space and others. They all worked together to come up with a temporary solution with goals to fix it long term. That was the optimistic future show I wanted to watch, showing that humans couldn’t past the differences of today to solve real problems.
It’s why TNG gets regular rewatches while I’ve never watched Picard again. If I want doomsday shit I’ll watch literally all the other shows ever made. I watch star trek because I’m feeling sad and want a shred of hope.
I get what you’re going for, but lets not do DS9 a disservice. “Hard Time” was literally and figuratively dark as fuck. He nearly vaporized himself on the promenade because he didn’t know how to live with the guilt of his virtual murder.
Those episodes were a rare exception, not the rule. They worked because it wasn’t normally like that. That reservation, and Star Trek’s episodic formula allowed you to skip them if necessary.
A 30 second moment, that was resolved through the power of his friendship with Bashir and the love of his wives (Bashir and Keiko), and his coworker - Bashir, and he’s fine next episode…
…Discovery would have trauma farmed the reprocussions for a whole season. I’m really glad there weren’t any kids on that ship. Some shows I feel like I’m safe with and I can trust the writers. Discovery is not one of them.
However, I’ve been enjoying Space Princinct on YouTube waaay too much, so maybe I’m just basic.
I think you’re definitely onto something here about the tone and string being a psychological buffer. It was kinda the point of Trek.
And Nu Trek just being a catastrophe in the end. Yea, most likely.
People just wanted a solid TNG/VOY/DS9 era type show, focused on single episode arcs that were thinly vieled philosophy discussions/elements from old sci-fi pulp transposed into the Trek world
I think it’s okay to not give people what they want IF AND ONLY IF you give them something they didn’t know they wanted yet instead. NuTrek was so bad at that though (Pic S3, LD, and some of SNW notwithstanding).
where the fuck is stargate
Amazon killed it.
amazon cancelled it because the execs wanted it to be more “broad with inclusivity”, it was never going to survive anyways on 10episodes, plus sgu soured peoples taste.
That means the execs don’t think the show is pandering to enough buzz-generating issues.
I need to watch Fringe. Somehow that one passed me by, and I still haven’t gotten around to watching that.
You will love Walter Bishop.
I started watching Fringe expecting X-Files 2, but it developed into a really long main arc that was intricate and awesome.
Academy also has an S2, not sure if that drops first.
Honestly, I’m kinda happy for Trek to go on hiatus for a while. The Discovery era has been more miss than hit, especially if only considering the mainline live action shows (DSC, PIC, SNW) and with the Skydance acquisition I’m not looking forward to Ellison Trek.
Maybe in another few years, with fresh writers and show runners who are actual Trek fans, etc. but for now, give it some distance and let the influence of Kurtzman/Orci/Abrams be left behind.
and with the Skydance acquisition I’m not looking forward to Ellison Trek.
My conspiracy theory brain thinks Ellison et al purposely sabotaged Trek.
Academy finishes before SNW. Tawny Newsome has pitched a show, but that was before the last 2 acquisitions. Fat chance of that happening now.
Ah, okay.
That Tawny Newsome show sounded like such a cool premise and angle on the universe, could have been great but yeah I assume it got axed.
thought they cancelled academy, because it was so bad?
just hire Ron Moore! he knows the deal.
It’s the new shopkeepers that are the big roadblock. Not that I wouldn’t welcome him back as a showrunner.
BSG and Lexx do things… But they don’t really scratch that star trek itch. The others? Totally. But those two are as far from trek as the caretaker could reach.
Sure, just figured I’d mention before my leaving them out results in a “but you didn’t include…” which we all know would happen.
But you didn’t include Red Dwarf
/s
Also, does MST3K count as a space station based TV show?
MST3K
And a lot is available on YouTube for free
Haven’t heard of Lexx before, adding it to my watch list. But it makes me wonder what other sci-fi I’ve missed. Gather, Nerds, and enlighten me, please.
Lexi is super fucking weird but great. It might take a while to get into, it has a very different vibe than anything else, but it’s fantastic.
Lexx is awesome and strange, with a middle-aged janitor as the main character. Stargate is also great, with enough spinoffs to keep you entertained for quite a while.
Also, The Orville season 4 is a confirmed thing,. But the actual release date is still up in the air.
There’s also additional rumors of a handful of TV movies that seems to be separate from the upcoming season, but those are unconfirmed.
They’re certainly dragging their heels on it.
I believe the Digital Dean speaks for us all.
The Orville Season 4 - Life After Retirement
babylon 5 could have been insane if they have more than 10 dollars to spend per episode.
I started the Ark on recommendations from folks over on Mastodon. Seems like a good option as well. I’m only a few episodes in, but it seems like they are using the idea of “these are the best of humanity,” which I always love to see.
I do think Trek is going to be gone for a while, officially, at least on screen, but I think we should see this as more of an opportunity. Last time, there were multiple attempts to get fan shows going. This time, I think we should all embrace fan fiction intentionally. Show the cronies that we don’t need their corporate input to make good Star Trek
TIL there’s a 12 Monkeys TV show. Thought it was just a one-off movie
Matalas took the core idea and created a whole new lore. Very timey-whimey. Great cast and music. There’s even a Groundhog Day episode, complete with tongue-in-cheek reference.
Time travel stories usually have glaring contradictions and paradoxes that defeat the whole story - for example, if you travel to the past and prevent WWII, you would grow up never knowing about it because it didn’t happen, and thus no reason to go back in time to stop it. I haven’t seen the 12 Monkeys series yet but the movie did a fantastic job of avoiding or hiding those glitches.
Guess I’m never getting the anthology series I’ve asked for all these years. (Short Treks doesn’t count, but it does prove my point.)
nutrek is just a continuation of JJ-abrams style of directing, none of the current shows are that good in general. the animated series were much better though. i dont think bsg can replicate the reimagined series unfortunately if it were to come out now.
Haven’t seen Lexx. Heard it was more dirty jokes than honest-to-goodness sci-fi.
I’d like to add Mass Effect to the list. It’s not a series of shows/films though, it’s a game series. The trick is to get the remastered trilogy. The first one sucked, and the remastered version fixes everything wrong with it. People love the first one in spite of all its problems. The second and fourth ones are the best, though the fourth one is its own thing. All the online is gone, the remastered third one gets rid of it, but the fourth one still sells online crap that don’t work.
If you’re unfamiliar with the story, here’s a crash course: humanity discovers an artefact on Mars that allows them to slingshot to a faraway galaxy. They send an expedition and find a friendly group, kind of like the Federation but more loosely knit. One of the main races sponsors humanity, takes them under their wing, and some species think humanity got elevated too quickly. You play the first human SPECTRE, which is kind of an interstellar free agent who investigates things and carries out the will of the council (which is mostly worthless as we soon learn). Another SPECTRE murders one of your guys, and the council doesn’t believe you, but they rush your promotion so you can investigate independently. Turns out it’s more than that, he’s trying to resurrect an ancient race that wants to destroy everything.
The game was made after developer BioWare lost the Star Wars license, so there’s a bit of Star Wars in Mass Effect in that you can get psionic powers. They’re optional, you can roll a soldier class, but they can still be used against you, and some of them are pretty cool. But it’s also like Star Trek in that you can explore solar systems and land on planets and explore. It really is its own thing, and if you buy the remastered trilogy, you have something like 150 hours of gaming, and it goes on sale for less than ten bucks (I got it for $6) all the time. I paid $4 for a deluxe edition of the fourth one that came with some online crap I can’t use. I’m not even mad. Woulda been $3 without it. I think I got 20-30 hours out of that game.
Starfield is probably the most Star Trek-like game out there, but Starfield sucks. I say this as a Starfield player. Paid $30 for it on sale last month, but I previously played it on GamePass, and I have over 800 hours in it. It’s not a great game by any stretch and I’m kinda mad that it’s worse than Mass Effect in almost every way, despite being about two decades newer. That said… you can build a ship from parts, then walk around it, then board it and walk around in it (they can be quite big!), then take off, then while in space, get up again and walk around, take the stick, and dogfight in it. The game itself sucks for a lot of reasons, but there’s something to be said for building and operating and upgrading your own ship. And Constellation is like a shitty Starfleet, with the morals and all that… You can do some dastardly deeds, but all your allies will turn against you in a heartbeat for some things (not all). Still, if you want TOS, do the Vanguard and Ranger quest lines, if you want TNG, do the main quest, and if you like DS9 (and Section 31), do the Ryujin quest. Or the pirate quest and side with the Vanguard — you’ll still get the best gun in the game. But I like the pirates
Then of course there’s Cyberpunk 2077, but that’s more “sci-fi/body horror” and “Cyberpunk” and not really Trekker stuff. But, it does feature Keanu Reeves, Idris Elba, and Cherami Leigh. So there’s that.
You can sit and watch… or you can be part of the story. I think that’s the future. Sadly there hasn’t really been a good Star Trek (or Star Wars, for that matter) game… but Mass Effect is a great game made for Trekkers. Starfield is a kinda-bad game also made for Trekkers. But it’s better than most Star Trek games.
Starfield
Or, as I like to call it, Spacerim.
And yeah, it’s… weirdly and frustratingly sparse and disjointed. The craziest part is that Elite: Dangerous (which, until somewhat recently, exclusively focused on space flightsim 6DOF gameplay) was/is incredible. The fact that, imo, Spacerim doesn’t really even hold a candle to that is just… honestly rather damning. Huge fall from grace for Bethesda.
I’m halfway through Lexx, that is the weirdest show I’ve seen in a very long time.
Embrace it. I’m an old fuck who first saw it when it aired in the 90’s, by s4 they’re straight up unhinged and its G L O R I O U S.
(Fun fact: i met my husband at a lan bash because he browsed my shares and went HOLY FUCK THIS PERSON HAS ALL OF LEXX i must meet them immediately)
Sadly there hasn’t really been a good Star Trek (or Star Wars, for that matter) game…
(Appreciate the recs, though)
But Rogue Squadron was only…
Oh, Koala. I’m getting old.
Love Mass Effect. Fuck EA. They might still develop the Prime show.
Also, full paragon with all survivors on ME2 every time!
Yep. I wanted to do Renegade and I still may someday, but the reason I saved everyone in Mass Effect 2 was just because I did all the things. I wanted to experience all the game has to offer.
My understanding is that during the final mission, you can designate a person to do a thing, and if you haven’t completed their loyalty mission, they fail (or, they can fail) and if so, they die. But, if you’ve either done all the loyalty missions, or you’ve done the loyalty missions of those you send, everyone lives. I may not have that 100% correct. I mean, I’ve only played ME2 the one time, and it was last year. (I could never get through the first one.)
But yes, fuck EA. It’s harder for me because I remember when EA itself was good. I had a paint program on one of my first computers, Deluxe Paint (developed by Dan Silva, I still remember his name from the splash screen) and that was made by EA. Except it was just “Electronic Arts” back then. Activision made their own games, too.
