- cross-posted to:
- electricvehicles@slrpnk.net
- cross-posted to:
- electricvehicles@slrpnk.net
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I wouldn’t even consider buying a car because of their policy around car play. Won’t even look at it.
Why can’t it just work like a dock for any device? Why does it have to be carplay or android auto with locked down protocols?
Because of ✨capitalism✨.
It’s an anticompetitive practice, that’s why.
I discovered a simple upgrade for the infotainment systems in most cars. The screens work perfectly well with either suction or adhesive-mount phone holders.
Even the shittiest phone is a major upgrade compared to any built-in infotainment system.
They’re all preparing to remove choice as we start to lose competition due to Trump Economy
Fuck Trump, but this one is a bipartisan effort that has been ongoing since the Clinton administration accelerated the deregulation train. There has also been very little action towards anti-competitive practices for a very long time.
Don’t get suckered into a red vs blue mindset here. This is a battle against corporate and billionaire abuse of power.
EDIT: If I am being honest, I was all onboard the deregulation train back in the nineties. I was young and ignorant. I never imagined the damage it would bring.
It was a lot more practical for new players to enter most of these markets back in the 90s, before the megacorps started to fully metastasize. Deregulation [of some industries] wasn’t the objectively bad choice that hind sight makes it seem like back then, just something worth trying to see if it improved outcomes. Remember, regulations are supposed to regularly change to meet the needs of the time, not be a lifetime commitment one way or the other that the political deadlock of the '00s and '10s made it seem.
before the megacorps started to fully metastasize
Almost the entirety of US car manufacturing is done by three carmakers. It’s been like that since at least the end of WW2.
Deregulation [of some industries] wasn’t the objectively bad choice that hind sight makes it seem like back then, just something worth trying to see if it improved outcomes.
Well with hindsight we definitely know that we got taken for the ride.
People who rule us are threat actors that exploit everything every chance they get.
You can’t reason with these parasites. And it will takes another generation just to roll back all of this bullshit.
There has also been very little action towards anti-competitive practices for a very long time.
Obama establishing the CFPB was a pretty big win for Americans.
The intention was good and there were some pro co sumer victories and many already got rolled back.
Calling this thing victory is like calling ACA victory.
Dad gave a me a toy so it is ok that he gets drunk and gives me the belt bulk. No wonder peasants can’t seem to see the picture lol
The ACA was a victory. Do we need better? Absolutley! However, I’m not sure if you remember healthcare before it. Remember “pre-existing conditions” or being charged for wellness checkup? Also, women paid significantly more for healthcare than men did. Balancing that back to equal was important.
Dad gave a me a toy so it is ok that he gets drunk and gives me the belt bulk. No wonder peasants can’t seem to see the picture
If you’re “all or nothing” you’ll get nothing. We could have had real change on Climate Change too if “cap and trade” was adopted, but someone just like you said it didn’t go far enough, and we got nothing instead.
If you’re “all or nothing” you’ll get nothing.
Yeah, that’s because binary thinking (everything’s XOR) is not thinking at all.
It’s silly but I have no interest in buying or driving cars that don’t support CarPlay. I’m used to it. It is safer for me to drive with a gps/voice control system I am used to. When I’ve had to rent cars that don’t support it it has been awful.
I would feel the same if I was an android user with Android auto.
I do not think every car needs their own system when one’s based on the devices we already use exist. Pisses me off.
I also wish someone would make a base model style EV I don’t need all these stupid extra features. I recently test drove a VW EV and wasn’t amused with the RGB door lighting. What a waste of money. I just want a vehicle to get from A to B.
Ironically, the Chevy Bolt was a perfect car for that. Reasonably priced, no stupid gizmos like retracting door handles, Android Auto, actual buttons for controls… But of course GM killed it. A new version should come out eventually, but who knows if it’ll keep the spirit of their old Bolts. For now, the used market hit the sweet spot where it’s still a pretty modern car, but it’s gone through most of its depreciation from new so it’s pretty cheap. Especially with the tax credit.
Full disclosure: DC fast charging sucks on this car. On some pre-2022 models it’s non-existent. But it’s still excellent for commuting and medium-short trips!
I freaking loved my Bolt. I was planning to get another before I started construction and needed a truck. Then I was planning to get a Bolt after this truck since I wouldn’t need it anymore, but they killed it.
Check out the used market! The 2022-23s had an awesome facelift, plus the EUV version is just a little bigger mostly in the back seats
I’ve been thinking of starting an ev retrofit company for very common cars/platforms. Drop out the drivetrain/fuel system. Install all the necessary replacement bits, and addons for a/c, heat, etc. Piggyback some kind of system so traction control doesn’t have an aneurism and make the gauges work right. I would need to find a reliable source for batteries and motors.
Edison Motors is doing that in Canada for light duty trucks. I don’t think there’s much of a market for it outside that considering the insane amount of labor costs you’d encounter trying to retrofit a vehicle. Best to either sell the kits to DIYers or find those few unicorn buyers who’d be willing to hand you $100k-$200k for 6-12 months worth of labor on a one-off vehicle.
yeah it would have to be a preconfigured kit for specific vehicles/drivetrain platorms which could be installed in a few days. Transit vans, ford/chevy p/u suv. A popular compact car platform with unreliable drivetrain issues.
I figure cost could come in below $20k depending.
Frankly CarPlay and Android Auto suck in my opinion compared to iDrive 7 on my BMW.
But… that being said, I do support choice. I wouldn’t even consider a car that doesn’t allow CP/AA as I think it should be up to the consumer to pick which one they want to use.
The Nav system on my Audi Q7 BLOWS compared to Android Auto. It can’t seem to understand a damn thing I say.
Yeah I’ve used the Audi one and it sucks. Especially traffic, so many missing streets and odd routing.
Ironically enough those RGB lights that cost Pennies are there to distract you from the fact that the cars themselves have been made of cheaper and crappier parts. Of course they still charge you more, but they are not adding to the price as much as you’d think.
My 2017 golf alltrack SEL is much higher quality than the 2020 Tiguan, and even better than the 2024 R-Line SEL Tiguan that my parter owns. The seats for example are not even close to as comfortable as mine. 2020 was a real fall off point because of Covid and they haven’t gone back to prioritizing quality.
Oh I agree so much. I’ve had 3 VW tiguans and they’ve progrssively gotten worse in quality. (Leases an 18 ,20, and now 24) each time the lease early buy back offer worked heavily in my favor and I am no longer in a position in life where I need to lease a vehicle so this 24 will be the last lease, but honestly my last VW as well.
On the topic of those dumb lights. The dealership I was at had a “price breakdown” for features and claimed those lights ‘only’ added 5 dollars a month to the monthly payment. I mean I know car dealerships will do everything for a penny but that just set me off.
“Only” 😂😭 I hope the ‘24 serves you well for years to come! I have my car paid off in Oct and I hope to keep it until the wheels fall off and the engine blows up!
Edit: they have tried to buy it back at least once a year and I couldn’t be less interested.
That’s what I love about my ‘23 Yaris. The entertainment system is basically a radio and hybrid telemetry. Everything else is CarPlay/Android Auto. No shitty outdated maps, no 90’-style MP3 player…
Bought a 2015 mustang and had to upgrade the Sync2 to Sync3 for about $1300. That’s when CarPlay was capable with Sync3. Made the car a thousand times better.
Slightly related. Wtf happened to the Apple CarPlay 2.0 thing that was supposed to fully integrate into the center console and digital dashboard screens that would allow the in-built UI to be overridden completely?
From an engineer at one of the legacy car manufacturers, they don’t want CarPlay 2 because it has privacy controls. They don’t want to give up so much access to the car, then have to access it over Apple APIs limited by privacy controls
I came to this conclusion shortly after posting this. Thanks for the confirmation.
Manufacturers are contemplating how to win back control over the UI of their vehicles. They remain completely oblivious to why CarPlay succeeded in the first place.
Possibly the fact many customers don’t want it. According to three Apple CarPlay site:
With digital car keys and the already seamless experience of Apple CarPlay, there are more ways than ever to take your iPhone on the road. With car keys, you can unlock and start your car with iPhone. And CarPlay gives you the ability to safely use what you love about your iPhone while you drive.
I don’t have an iPhone, so from all the marketing blurbs, it’s pretty much saying “Spend a ton of extra money for something you can never use.” I’ll pass on spending $1000+ on that useless"upgrade". And since Apple is notorious about locking iThings to Apple only hardware (or just not having full functionality when they do allow it), I doubt I’m alone in this thought.
Interesting pov. Thanks for sharing!
https://www.astonmartin.com/en-us/models/db12
I think, it is in this car
That settles it then, I’m getting an Aston (like I needed more reasons to lust after them haha).
Just put it on the card. Oh that one is maxed? Put it on this one. Oh that too? Okay then use this card. Same thing huh? Well try this one here. Oh th-
IMO cars that have their own infotainment system should also allow Android Auto and Apple CarPlay. Give the user a choice. Collect metrics about how many people use Android Auto / CarPlay vs the native infotainment system. Maybe survey people who use Android Auto or CarPlay often to see what they think is missing from the native infotainment system. Iterate. Get people to use the native infotainment because it’s better, not because you force them to.
I’ve got a BMW iX and the in-built map is very good, but I like knowing that I can switch to Android Auto if I encounter issues with it.
Yeah but if you allow people to choose, you can’t force them to use your apps and buy within your walled garden.
You’re missing out on all that revenue.
That’s true and I hate it. I miss the older days of the internet when protocols were mostly open and people were more focused on collaboration and interoperability.
I ran into this with my 2013 Kia Sorento ICE (which was subsequently totalled. :( )
When you replace the on-board infotainment system, there’s an interoperability package that has to be installed to make sure the existing functions of the vehicle continue to work.
Think of it like a translation layer, everything on the dashboard that went through the old system, has to be hooked up to the new system. Also complicated by steering wheel controls.
When it was all said and done, I had the full array of cameras that I wanted (turn signal cameras are amazing!) and everything worked…
Except the one little button that changed the interior lighting. It was forever stuck on red.
Now, for an EV, it’s essential everything work properly. I can totally see GM shutting that down.
This is kind of like the complaint about EVs not having AM radios… yeah, there’s a reason for that!
https://www.autosinnovate.org/posts/blog/not-cheap-a-3.8-billion-fix-for-am-radio-in-evs
Putting your vehicle main control inside the head unit is absurd to begin with.
Right, not sure why the steering wheel controls would even come into play. Android auto and Apple car play units from 2014 that I bought can directly accept the industry standard steering wheel controls cars use. I was able to use this stereo in a Honda from 06 and a Subaru from 2015. There are also wireless adapters for cars that didn’t have the feature from the factory. If it broke it was a conscious decision.
In their case they’re using a variant of Google for automotive, so enabling apple carplay and android auto is literally a checkbox on GM side
They’re doing extra work to disable it because they want to render the car worthless when after a few years when the os is outdated and the user doesn’t pay a subscription for maps
I got the head unit changed in my Subaru . In the Subaru, the systems that the Head Unit controls (entertainment system, backup cam, Sat NAV) are totally separate from critical systems. So everything the head unit controls can fail and the car will still work.
And you’re right, there’s an interface/translation layer . In my case the guy used an iDataLink Maestro. It seems the only thing the iDataLink company does provide interfaces that allow head units to talk to car computers, so that the Head unit manufacturers don’t have to bother.
I’m not sure such separation is common in EVs.
Don’t buy cars like this, that’s the only thing that will help.
And considering it’s GM, it’s not really hard to avoid buying them when there are better options.
Does all EV require travel destination for battery preconditioning ? If so EV have kind of spying as a feature.
No.
Don’t you dare give consumers what they want.
Frankly I would like to not use Apple CarPlay / Android Auto — however, the built in software needs to actually usable and continuously updated.
I particularly want to see better non-touch input. Rotary dial + buttons à la Mazda, and much better voice input. I live in a multilingual region, and it consequently renders most in-built navigation voice commands useless, as it won’t understand language switching. Even Google assitant has issues with this despite supporting multiple input languages, usually resulting in me saying the entire command in the same language as the address. (Or just giving up if the name and street are in two languages).
But with built in systems that only support one language at a time, I just can’t say some of the addresses since I don’t know how it wants me to mispronounce them in English.
I also have found media playback frustrating in any modern vehicle. This is likely a lot harder to solve, but the inability to switch playlists or change playback settings without my phone connected to Android Auto is frustrating when in vehicles without it.
I know this is very ranty and not that big of a deal, it’s just frustrating seeing so little progress in the past decade on this front — and in some aspects like human interface design of vehicles, they have frankly regressed. If I look at the voice input systems on cars from 15-20 years ago there has been huge improvement, but even 10 years ago to now it doesn’t feel that different. Maybe a few new commands, but the quality of recognition / utility of the system is lacking.
continuously updated
Hahaha… hahahahahahahaha
Some of the newer auto manufacturers do that. Telsa, Rivian, etc. Those companies all have good in-house software developers. Almost everyone else farms this stuff out, which is why it’s never updated.
Media playback is easy: find the line in jack hidden away somewhere. Plug phone into it. Ignore infotainment console.
Why would you want an infotainment system in your car? I don’t get it. All I want when I’m driving is navigation and music/podcast, and I can just use my phone for both
Guess what device Apple CarPlay uses for all its features.
So then why bother with a weird built-in system? Just stick your phone somewhere and you’re good
It’s only weird because it’s not CarPlay or Android Auto. As soon as you have one of those it suddenly becomes nice and useful.
Then it’s a nice big touch screen that has everything you need from your phone.
It lets your phone use the larger screen for satnav. It also reconfigures it to a better setup for driving (bigger buttons and reduced complexity). This also means your phone doesn’t need to be sat in the sun, with its screen lit up for a couple of hours, and so overheating.
My phone no longer even leaves my pocket. It wirelessly links to the entertainment system.
Why would I take out my phone instead of using the bigger screen built into my car?
You’re supposed to be watching the road mate, not some screen
Why are you pulling out your phone to change songs then?
