my daughter has stolen a few things. She’s 7 now but it started when she was 6. It was from school a few times - at first it was seen as a mistake and for her to return at item.
She was always told “it’s the school’s” or “person X will be sad if doesn’t have y back”.
Recently however she took some chewing gum from a shop. When I saw it I took her back to the shop, we gave it back and she apologised to the shopkeeper.
I told her about how it is not nice, can make people sad, it is illegal etc. she didn’t get a dessert that day (our usual day for having one). And I wrote a few questions on a bit of paper (why stealing is bad, what will you do if you feel like doing it again etc.) and asked her to answer them - she wrote the answers down.
Less than a week later she got a pencil off a boy, gave it to her mum and said that she won two pencils. We checked this with the teacher and the teacher said there was a boy who ‘lost’ a pencil and was upset about it.
So she knows it is wrong, but is continuing to do it. It is difficult to catch her in the act of it. Has anyone dealt with similar behaviour in a child of a similar age? Any recommendations?
I can force myself to shout at her (this would scare her as I don’t shout), I can take her to the local police by pre -arrangement , I’m not sure what the best approach to stop this behaviour is. It could have possibly been going on since she was in nursery as we’ve always accounted for things showing up as normal mistakes not intentional stealing.
It’s entirely normal, and not a failure of morals or parenting, for young children to lie and steal. She’s learning how to be a person in a brain that’s been conditioned to survive above all else. All morality is built on empathy, and all empathy is learned.
Anger and fear are not the best choice to get her to stop. Punishments and yelling will just train her to hide her bad choices from you. I would absolutely not involve third parties like the police. She is learning how to be a person from you, and if you threaten her with outside societal punishments, she will stop trusting that you are the best source of morality.
It’s important to build trust. She needs to be comfortable telling you when she has done something you won’t like. She should understand and believe that things are better when she makes good choices.
Taking away desserts works as a punishment because she is losing something good. Natural consequences are best because her developing brain will make stronger connections between cause and effect, but you want her to learn to feel empathy for her victim. I wouldn’t ask her to give up something that isn’t
The best response is to have a conversation with her about how it feels to have something stolen from her. Maybe share a story about something that was stolen from you, and ask her to identify the feelings you would have felt. You want her to internalize the feeling of guilt, because that’s the voice in her head reminding her to ignore the desire to take something she wants.
If she thinks, “I want this, but the police might come get me” then the desire voice will whisper “then we better not get caught!” If she thinks “I want this, but taking it will hurt someone” then it makes no difference if she hides the crime from her parents. She might still steal and then lie avout it because she is ashamed, but that’s where the trust pays off. Eventually, you want her to generalize that empathy to think “I shouldn’t steal because this makes the world a worse place.”
TLDR: Don’t yell, definitely don’t threaten with the police, talk with her about feelings and help her understand how it feels to have something good taken away (like dessert). Also, encourage her to apologize, but only if she sincerely feels sorry. You’re not a bad parent, and she’s not a bad kid. People aren’t good or bad, it their choice that are good or bad.
Thanks. Yeah, I don’t want to shout at her really, it isn’t something I do. I have tried to talk about the moral aspects and how it makes others feel sad already. You’re recommending more of the same, I was worried about limited effectiveness. She certainly didn’t feel sorry when she apologised to the shopkeeper, but she was incredibly embarrassed and shy about it, to the point I’m surprised she did so! I’ve also tried the story thing and so has another trusted adult. Another poster mentioned removing vegetables as something she likes, this could be a direct consequence. As you say, I don’t want it to be about 'not getting caught ’
You don’t mention the most important part of the above comment: asking her how she feels to have something stolen and asking how she thinks someone who’s had something stolen feels.
That’s different than telling her how someone would feel. The point is to develop empathy. At her age she should be capable of theory of mind. You want to focus on developing the skill of modeling others’ feelings in response to her own actions.
Get her to think about how someone else feels rather than tell her. This shouldn’t be just an exercise for hurtful actions, either. It’s equally important for good feelings. “You gave me a hug! That made me feel so good inside!” “Look at that puppy. I wonder if he’s happy?”
“I wonder” is a powerful way to unlock someone’s brain to expand their consciousness about the world around them. It gently invites them to follow the path you’re trying to lead them on and it shows you how they are seeing the world. People naturally like to have the answer especially when someone else displays some ignorance.
(“I wonder” works on everyone, not just kids. It’s especially helpful with people with dementia.)
I did ask her that actually (how would she feel), but it certainly wasn’t the focus it was more how would that other person feel. I’ll explore the ‘i wonder’ too, not just for this. Thanks.
Also adding to the previous commenter: parenting is a long road. It will take a while for the message to sink in. Learning doesn’t happen overnight, and your anguish at the matter does not translate to a quicker learning experience. Don’t think it’s your fault that it takes repeated attempts four get to learn.
All the best!
Shout is really effective in the moment at interrupting a process. I hate shouting, too, but sometimes it’s necessary (and sometimes I lose my temper, but that’s unintentional and is followed by an apology). Teaching a child empathy is a slow and constant process where the results aren’t always immediately apparent.
You also don’t want the punishment to be emotionally cruel. Like I wouldn’t suggest you take her beloved toy away to replace something stolen. I wouldn’t probibit a child from attending a party or experience that may not happen again. Parents sometimes feel like “something bad” needs to be emotionally devastating, or rigidly absolute. I had a friend in high school who missed his prom because he got a bad grade on an exam.
Regarding the apology being sincere, of course it’s better to make an effort even if she isn’t sincere, but the point is to make her actually feel bad for what she did, not because she was punished but because she understands how it made someone else feel. Some lessons aren’t learned the first time, and the vast majority of people will make the same mistake more than once.
It’s entirely normal, and not a failure of morals or parenting, for young children to lie and steal. She’s learning how to be a person in a brain that’s been conditioned to survive above all else. All morality is built on empathy, and all empathy is learned.
Damn, you said it so much better than I.
Also the rest of your comment.
It’s not a biggie at that age; unless it becomes habitual.
I think you acted well.
If I had to guess I’d say stealing from a shop is different (for her and everybody involved) than stealing from a classmate. Worse, somehow. More official. With a classmate, there’s probably a narrative that helps her justify the act.
And just one relapse so far seems OK; just keep up what you’ve been doing so far, stressing empathy (“what if this happened to you?”). Sometimes it takes more than one try to get things right.
One more thing: kids do a lot to get attention. Ask yourself if she’s getting enough from you, and if these incidents get her more attention from you.
I don’t have any experience with this, but maybe the teacher has an idea on how to deal with this behaviour (at least in the classroom).
That’s a good idea. I think I’ll arrange a meeting with the teacher. Thanks
Just adding to other ideas but my mom gave me children morality books I read in the bathroom and before bed. Though I think most of my morals came from star trek, batman, and thundercats.
Side story: I remember the exact moment my mom caught me stealing a ball it was not the consequences that hurt me it was my moms disappointment that lingered in me.
Thanks. Do you happen to remember what were the books called? Maybe more moralistic TV is called for! I’d certainly enjoy a rewatch of star trek ha
“Help me be good” they were short easy reads. All I remember of them.
Thanks, I’ll take a look
In my experience getting louder doesn’t resolve any misbehaviour, at least not in the long term…
I have anticorp beliefs so I’d be aware of teaching the moral standpoint of not stealing from small, independent, local businesses.
She definitely seems to prioritise her desire for the item or the act of stealing over any knowledge of wrongdoing.
I know that taking one out of one’s comfort zone, as it were, can elicit more effective punishment. I can only think of temporary confiscation of whatever she likes (it’ll be easy if her parent/s already got her hooked on electronic devices), or perhaps if she finds comfort in her parent/s, her being detained by an officer or store security for stealing, with no familiar face in sight, but for a 7yo this’ll be hard to fabricate.
I was thinking about setting up something with a local officer - I read that you’re in the UK, so that gives you a good shot of this at least
How is she for eating vegetables? Could threaten to remove them as a punishment. I fell for some dumb threats as a kid, it might work to reinforce that veg is the most important portion aha
As well as punishment for what would later in life result in legal conflict, you probably know it’s just as important to encourage streaks of good behaviour, if you’re confident it really is a clean streak.
Thanks for your insight. I’ve not thought of removing vegetables, she does eat them no problem & enjoys them. My real worry is that if the behaviour continues into later life, then the consequences are much more severe.
I agree, last I checked the law starts to get involved at age 10, and we’d rather prevent her from getting in serious trouble!
I suppose I’d also try completely putting aside the wrongness of it, as she seems to know, and instead try to understand why she does it, maybe figure out why it so appealing. Maybe the adrenaline of doing it, which could be substituted for a different activity… I hope you have luck!
Not-a-parent here. I would probably speak with a therapist/child psychologist. Kleptomania is a thing, it happens, it is treatable. If it’s not that, a therapist would still be able to help.
In any case, holy shit definitely don’t do that:
I can take her to the local police by pre -arrangement
Ratting out your own child to police for very minor infractions, even just for a scare or whatever, sounds like a good way to lose her trust, ruin her psyche and destroy your relationship with her forever. All for what?
It would be a community support police officer, in the UK. It wouldn’t be a criminal record sort of thing nor even saying my daughter is stealing or anything serious. Basically a discussion of what can happen if someone steals. Just an idea. They have regular community events which we would attend and I’d ask ’ what happens if '… My wife is a psychologist, so we have that part covered. Thanks for your response.
Doctors still go to other doctors, you don’t want your wife to be both a mom and the therapist, it muddies the waters. An unrelated third party can do a lot of things parents can’t (some things settle differently when a parent says it vs when someone else says it). It’s also tough for the grown ups to see things that are obvious to others. So many kids with even mild adhd or autism that could have had a little help, but the parents just thought of it as their quirks.
Edit: sorry for the babbling rant
It sounds like you’ve got a good approach and good advice from the comments. Frustrating, for sure, but it’s likely to take a lot of time and repetition. Something to add to your conversations with her - you might want to start asking about her feelings about stealing. What was the moment when she realized she wanted to take something, what did it feel like when she took it, how does she feel about other people’s reactions. Lots of unpack there! Maybe it’s a conversation to have away from an actual stealing incident, so that you can approach it with curiousity more than (immediate) judgement. Does she WANT to keep stealing? And if so, why? If not, does she need help coming up with strategies to deal with the feeling of wanting to steal something in the moment?
