- cross-posted to:
- europe@feddit.org
- cross-posted to:
- europe@feddit.org
Swiss voters on Sunday decisively rejected a call to require women to do national service in the military, civil protection teams or other forms, as all men must do already.
Official results. with counting still ongoing in some areas after a referendum, showed that more than half of Switzerland’s cantons, or states, had rejected the “citizen service initiative” by wide margins. That meant it was defeated, because proposals need a majority of both voters and cantons to pass.
Voters also heavily rejected a separate proposal to impose a new national tax on individual donations or inheritances of more than 50 million francs ($62 million), with the revenues to be used to fight the impact of climate change and help Switzerland meet its ambitions to have net-zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050.
If men have to sign up for the draft then it is only fair that women have to too. It’s unfair that only men have to risk being drafted and losing so much of their life to war.
Personally, I think having a draft is a terrible idea regardless of gender.
They voted down adding women to this already bad idea. Potentially in the future, they remove the draft altogether.
I guess my point is, why would you want them to make the situation worse just so it is equal?
While I understand the pushback against military drafts/service requirements, they also can be a net positive for a culture that applies them equally regardless of gender, class or ethnicity. You are significantly less likely to support war if your children or grandchildren could potentially get dragged into it. Want to the majority of wars? Make it a law that the heirs of the rich must serve in the infantry during wartime.
Counterpoint: with a draft, people are less willing to support the government going to war.
Support for mandatory military service in Switzerland has been going up in recent years, so I wouldn’t count on it.
Removing the draft is never on the table.
Actually I rather if Drafting was abolished altogether
As a general rule, I oppose gender roles codified into law.
Oh give me a break, women are getting away worse in so many facets of life. When we have fixed discrimination against women we can talk about them doing mandatory civil service.
Edit: Did not know that on Lemmy we have such an issue with women’s rights.
Nope, it is YOU who has an issue with equality. But then Men’s blood is cheap to you right. So what if they get their limbs blown up. That’s not suffering to you.
Do not bring up too many arguments.
I don’t have to, you did all the dirty work for me.
If believing so makes you happy ☺️
So? Are we supposed to have a fair, equal society or are we playing these games of measuring each other’s cocks?
Measure whatever you want but maybe first make it slightly more equal for the ones who have been disadvantaged for decades? But no, one party always focuses on the few things man have where they are slightly worse of.
I’m a feminist and I honestly don’t understand this mentality. Mixing genders in all activities is good for our society, period.
Not if said activity is forced upon you. Women can already voluntarily join the military or civil service.
So can men, but in this instance they’re also compelled. The ask here is that if men are compelled to service, women should be too. That’s obviously equal treatment and fair.
Am I in the wrong movie? Women are at a huge disadvantage in life (Gender pay gap, workplace representation, unpaid care and domestic work, education and job positions, healthcare, part-time employment, promotion and career advancement, violence against women, political representation) and we should work to solve that but for some reason we first want to force them to also serve in the military while leaving the current system in place that puts them at a disadvantage? Oh the heavens, men have to serve for a single year…yes that is super important, not all the things they get a huge advantage in life?
This is super twisted and infantalizing to women to be honest. We don’t fight for equality by using equity logic that is faulty, we ask everyone, men and women to see women as equals in all areas of life. We’re strong, resilient, capable and independent, and you’re philosophy asks to maintain privilege ( not military draft ) because you think we face so much other issues, that you see that as equitable, but equity is often the incorrect solution to fairness, fairness is often blind, it says anything a man can do, women can do too. I want to be seen as an equal, not weaker. Women should be in positions of power, not protected and privileged, we are just as capable.
You’re right, men should just go die in a war they have no reason to fight and be happy about it.
No they should not? Nobody said that.
Also nobody who is in the army here actually believes they will ever see a war. Most people who serve just hate it and see it as a waste of time that will never amount to anything.
all animals are equal but some are more equal than others (/s)
It doesn’t sound like Lemmy has an issue with women’s rights, it sounds like you have an issue with equal rights.
Unfortunately a large majority of people have an issue with women’s rights 🥲
While i see the theoretical point of “if bad happens to men, it should happen to women too”, i don’t think it applies to heavily bad situations, especially with all the bad things already happening in disadvantage of women, and also especially war and especially from a pacifist perspective. Like no one says “if more women are raped than men, we should rape more men to make it fair”. I know it’s not the same situation its just a abusive comparison to strongly show the pertinence of a stance like “even if it’s not fair, the most people we can get out of horrible situations the better it is”.
Statistically woman do so much more care work then men, they already served the country well. There is no need to also draft them. It’s only fair. It would also work if more men would take care of kids, the elderly or do other chores without any pay and skip any career for that.
This comment is pure comedy gold.
That’s great but we are talking about the draft, not domestic life. Women can take on roles in the armed services that mean some men won’t be forced into doing. Combat roles aren’t the entire thing, plenty of support roles that need filling out. Being drafted won’t be fun but if we want true equality then women have to help shoulder the burden when/if a draft happens. It’s a privilege to not have to worry about being drafted, giving that privilege up won’t be fun but it is fair.
There is also the emprical evidence that women make less over the course of their careers. An extra year or two of work experience can help to offset that.
Obviously not everyone falls into those gender norm buckets. But… they are “gender norms” for a reason. And while I don’t know how our trans friends impact that (or if Switzerland acknowledges their existence…), it isn’t the worst way to break things down to having roughly half the population on the frontlines and the other half keeping the country running.
But this is the kind of thing that brings out the MRA tendencies in everyone as a kneejerk reaction.
Military service isn’t “being on the frontline.” I don’t know how Switzerland handles it, but in the US a lot of aid work is done by reservists. I’m sure Switzerland does similar things with these people. Sure, they’re also all trained to fight, but they aren’t fighting in a war right now, so they use them to do other things. Some of that will be building bunkers and stuff, but a lot is probably doing things that support the country in other ways.