• DarkCloud@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    I’ve seen this episode, at first after the revolution there’s three full plates of food. The party is doing well in power, then they consolidate power, the food portions get smaller as party elites get richer and more powerful.

    Eventually it’s just three plastic replicas of food, as they acknowledge everyone eats differently. Eventually it’s just a badge or picture of the plates of food. By that time class based Capitalism has been restarted by the new party oligarchs, they even have more control and oversight than the current Capitalists.

    What I mean is, you can’t “should” us to a new and better system. You have to fully understand the current one, its weaknesses and strengths and the minds/views/motivations of every class and type in it before you can come up with something that is entirely and peacefully transition motivated, and has a better option to transition to… What’s more the whole journey has to appeal to human nature and satisfy some if not all those needs… Even if you don’t personally share all those needs… And you have to be realistic about such.

    Rules for Rulers comes as close as I’ve seen on this:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs

    • protist@mander.xyz
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      11 months ago

      Or, you know, we could spend slightly more on existing food programs and relax eligibility requirements…

      We don’t have to put Stalin in charge to better fund SNAP or free school lunches

        • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Please specify the “We”

          The general answer is political and scientific illiteracy combined with corruption in politics (such as money or a party with too much power).

  • NutWrench@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    If you’re working 40 hours a week and you STILL can’t afford basics like food, shelter and healthcare, then your economy (and your employer) sucks.

      • NutWrench@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        You can’t have an economy if the “consumer class” stops consuming. If people have no confidence in the economy, they stop spending money. An economy only works if people SPEND money, not if a tiny number of people hoard it.

  • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    Cooking Mama has an ideal outcome - Great

    Cooking Mama’s idea of getting there was whatever the fuck the USSR was doing… - Not Great

    Just Tax the rich while maintaining a strong democracy, it’s not hard.

    • алсааас [she/they]@lemmy.dbzer0.comM
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      11 months ago

      you don’t get to communism through “social democracy” XD

      any concessions given by the rich in bourgeois “democracies” are funded by outsourcing some of the exploitation to the imperial periphery/global south

      • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        You definitely don’t get to a public owned means of production and redistribution of goods through Autocracy for vwry obvious reasons.

        The rich need not make concessions when the poor can help write the laws.

        • алсааас [she/they]@lemmy.dbzer0.comM
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          11 months ago

          1st of all, great whataboutism 👍

          but I will indulge you:

          Autocracy?! That’s not what that word means. Tsarism was autocracy, Chiang Kai-shek was basically an autocrat.

          What you are talking about is a revisionist degenerated workers state (or bourgeois state of a new type in the case of contemporary China) in which the bureaucracy grew too strong to a quasi caste-like status above the rest of the population. There were attempts to correct this in both the USSR (workers/left/united opposition) and in the PRC (Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution) but both were crushed

          So it’s definitely smth we should learn from, to not repeat those mistakes. But that does not mean turning to the snake oil that is social democracy/democratic socialism which believe that somehow we can magically convince the ruling classes of systemic change and that they will give up power voluntarily. (And even if you manage somehow to wrestle significant concessions, they will either be rolled back after 30yrs or you’ll get the bullet in a fascist coup)

          EDIT: Even under bureaucratic state socialism, there still was collective rule. Yes cults of personality were established around key figures (e.g. Stalin and Mao) but you can look up CIA documents where they dismiss that Stalin had abolished collective leadership (though ofc he still was the figurehead of the bureaucracy and the dominant force). Mao had an even stronger cult of personality, but a far “weaker” position than Stalin and the leadership was far more collective (just an fyi: this is why Mao called for a cultural revolution, which was a grassroots movement btw. The capitalist roaders (party bureaucrats who wanted to get back to capitalism but keep their privileged party posts) where gaining more and more power and he was not in a dictatorial position to stop them at will. So he had to organize a mass students and youth movement. Ofc there were excesses and errors there as well)

          And despite the corrupt character AES brought forth massive progress in all fields of society. Free education up to university for everyone who didn’t slack at school. Millions of emancipated people learned to read for the first time ever. Massive scientific progress. Access to culture for millions. Making things like theatre, operas, ballet, cinema and chess accessible (and affordable !) for the masses. Making sure everyone had a place to work, sleep, smth to eat and clean water. Giving women the right to work, vote, choose whom or even if to marry, to go through life unveiled and just generally choose their own lives.(but this is one of the errors again. Patriarchal social structures were still kept and social conservatism took hold, which is why women rarely if ever had the rly high positions and were barred from the military f.e.) Making sure every child had a place at a crib or kindergarten. Making good quality healthcare accessible to all free of charge. Including vaccinating even the furthest regions, that had never even seen a doctor before.

          This might not seem all that impressive to the priviliged liberal, but you have to look at the state the regions where in before: semi-feudalism at best (and/or bombed into the 3rd world after WW2)

          Ofc there were excesses and mistakes, as already stated. But that does not negate their achievements.

          TL;DR: dismissing state socialism as “something that didn’t work for the people” is disingenuous and disregards the fact that it did work and that, despite its flaws, it worked for hundreds of millions of people. We should not demonize previous socialist experiments, neither should we glorify them, but constructively learn from their mistakes when striving for a class-, state-, and moneyless society (aka communism, which is materially possible in todays world and not an idealist utopia, but a historic necessity if humanity is to progress as a species and not devolve into barbarism/fascism)

          good short clips of Parenti talking if anyone’s interested (he put it rly well imo)

          https://youtu.be/JSpVB_XXXBQ

          https://youtu.be/npkeecCErQc

          https://youtu.be/BeVs6t3vdjQ

          and also a rly good Parentiwave edit https://youtu.be/3-PHYj1vb-w

          • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            Wow we get it, you would suck a dictator’s cock. Say more with less, dictator cocksucker.