i am getting paid for being unproductive. checkmate capitalists.
Without the need to spend 40 hours a week on making profit for unproductive members of society (shareholders) just to be allowed food and shelter, just think what people could achieve.
@Korhaka @FoxtrotDeltaTango I agree tromsite.com
UBI would change opensource forever
A lot more people would do a lot more work if they could do what they enjoy and not have to worry about how they will pay their bills.
Not paying open source devs or firefighters is taking advantage of their enthusiasm.
I started out thinking firefighters should all just be paid and it’s unreasonable to expect folks to volunteer. I’ve come back around and think it should be “volunteer or pay”. We obviously need the money for expensive gear and apparatus maintenance. Also it’s helpful to not have to get out of bed in the middle of the night when tomorrow is a work night
On the other hand, I think it’s extremely beneficial to have the resilience of a lot of skilled firefighters in the community. When there’s a big call you want as many people as quickly as possible. I also think it helps with PTSD to be able to just take time off from calls without losing your job. So I think there should be a lot more volunteers and an easier path to getting enough skills to become a volunteer.
In Germany we usually have both working together. If there are bigger fires they both do the active work together. If it’s smaller the paid fire dept does the main job and the volunteers do chores like fully extinguishing residual stuff. Sometimes areas also only have volunteers for smaller areas and the paid fire dept is in the main city
In the USA the big cities are fully paid, the suburban areas are a combination, and the rural areas are fully volunteer. I’m in a combination department, where the paid staff handle most of the medical calls and both respond to fire calls. The biggest issue with growing income inequality is folks just don’t have as much free time to volunteer so it’s hard to get enough members to fully staff an apparatus. That means paid staff but those are expensive and require a lot of logistics to maintain.
Kinda. But once you pay them, you also start to expect things from them. You inadvertenty put pressure on them. This will drive some of the volunteers away.
“The moment you start earning money from a hobby, it stops being a hobby and starts becoming a job”
When people are like “nobody would want to sweep the floors!!!1!1!1!1” all I can think of is this dude on YouTube that just goes around clearing drains and culverts cause he likes it.
There’s a particular flavor of person for everything and even if it’s not something you love to do, it’s something people would be willing to do if it’s not something you have to do 40 hours a week or your family starves.
The gamble is if there’s enough of these people in the right places to keep society running.
I’m not as confident as a lot of people seem to be that there are/would be. And that’s ignoring the aspects of training, physical ability, etc and just considering interest/desire.
With UBI, it doesn’t mean there aren’t any jobs at all. It means that you need to incentivise people with enough money that they actually want to do that job. Better than the alternative of paying someone a poverty wage so they can try to keep a roof over their head.
The way things are sucks, so maybe we should roll the dice then.
Still I can’t see how someone would volunteer working as a swimming pool life guard, though
Just heard someone who exactly wants to do that.
This sort of thing is unironically the best thing about Youtube. It lets people do things like this, and make money from their activities through sharing them with the world. Obviously the money isn’t the motive, but I’m sure he appreciates the Youtube revenue on the side, and it means people get to see someone doing something good that they’d otherwise be oblivious to, which helps the perception that there are, in fact, good people out there.
Still I can’t see how someone would volunteer working as a swimming pool life guard, though
What’s the channel?
Post 10
Thanks
I don’t think anyone has ever argued that nobody would ever be productive without pay. The concern is that not enough people would choose to be productive if they didn’t have to.
There seems to be a correlation between doing productive things for fun and higher intelligence and education. There is also a strong correlation between higher intelligence and holding left-wing views. Hence, the people posting these types of memes think that everyone would do what they would (be productive for fun). But ask some more… average intelligence people, and you will find that they’ll tend to say if they could just chill and play video games or scroll TikTok all day, that’s all they would do.
Could we continue to feed people even if work was made optional? At our level of the tech tree, probably. But people don’t just want to be fed, they like having computers and video games and houses and running water, all of which take a stupendous amount of labour to create and maintain, and I’m just not convinced that we could subside off volunteer labour for any society bigger than a few hundred people (which, not coincidentally, also tends to be about the maximum size of a left-wing commune)
That’s because you shouldn’t give everthing to them, but you should at least give them a place to call home, food and meds, enough to make them survive and not worry if they can’t work but not enough to not wanting to work because then you don’t have stuff like computers, videogames etc etc
There seems to be a correlation between doing productive things for fun and higher intelligence and education
Correlation does not mean causation. Many people do productive things because they can. And being productive is also very dependent on definition.
If you’re uneducated, unlucky enough to grow in a household where ideas aren’t valued and failure is mocked or success belittled, and of course poor, chances are great you will not do much in life. However, if you’re poor, surrounded by motivated individuals who thrive to be successful and push you to be educated, and they do what they van to get you into school, there’s a good chance you will succeed.
The biggest problems are lack of access to good education and opportunity. “High intelligence” is just an excuse to confuse success with intelligence and hard work. That’s not how our society works.
I agree with you on that. Intelligence isn’t a stat point that someone is assigned at character creation. It’s the result of the educational opportunities and support that they had access to growing up.
The profit motive has been getting in the way of a lot of productivity lately.
