As someone who’s been banned or frozen from every message board i’ve ever frequented for edgy jokes, I honestly agree lol. That show’s super grating and the jokes aren’t even interesting unless you’re shallow af
Because adults are just grown children, sometimes. Like, seriously, age says nothing about maturity, just hypothetical, lived experience.
Too many people seem to think that portraying something is the same thing as supporting it, completely missing the point of satire. They lack the media literacy to realize that critiques can be conveyed through characters and stories in a nuanced way.
South Park parodies a lot of things, sometimes by showing something simply as what it is. Some characters are meant to be disliked. For example, when Cartman is a douchebag, but he’s not meant to be a “good guy” to model yourself after. He’s a caricature of a self-centered bigot, and in being that, is used to lampoon others like him.
The show has had some bad takes. The whole “ManBearPig” scenario comes to mind. Thankfully, the creators came around to admitting they were very, very wrong in that case. In my opinion, such bad episodes are rare, with most providing cultural commentary in a way that turns them into time capsules reflecting various moments in our world.
With that said, it’s okay to not like it. Not every show is going to appeal to everybody, especially a show that makes it a point to poke fun at almost everyone. Though one group they don’t make fun of is disabled people - they show disabled characters as normal people, getting into their own hijinks the way all the other kids do. Instead, the creators make fun of those who’d rather infantilize disabled people and hide them away, like way back when Timmy was introduced and was in a band. Le Petite Tourette explained Tourette’s Syndrome honestly, with Cartman’s abuse of the situation being standard Cartman behavior (that backfired on him beautifully.)
Shutting people out who see the nuance is a naive take. I wouldn’t go out of my way to sell the show to such people, but if they can’t see that the show has far more hits than misses, well, they’re the ones missing out.
My take is that SP is a show about how everyone is capable of being hypocritical, petty and inflammatory. It touches on uncomfortable subjects because those are what bring people to show the aforementioned traits.
I don’t think “dark humor” is the point, it’s just there to keep the viewer engaged so they can see social issues from another angle and reconsider their views.
Yeah, it’s been a while since they graduated from sophomoric jokes into using their show to convey real messages about the world we live in. The satire is exquisite. My partner, who comes from a very different culture, typically doesn’t enjoy USA style comedy. She loves SP, though.
Somebody’s got some sand in their vagina.
“if someone disagrees im muting them” is the cry of someone i dont need to hear anything from
The entitled American (and I’m an American myself). My country has fostered mentalities and behaviors that I can’t stand. We act like the planet owes us everything. Obviously not everyone is like this, but America has a unique brand of entitlement that I’ve witnessed pour out of both right-wingers and even the most leftist people. I witnessed a local well-known white pro-Palestine activist refuse to participate in a march for the black community because police were present. They didn’t stop to think “this is lead by and represents them—I should stay to support their actions.”
No one is safe from being an entitled asshole and it’s healthy to have a reality check sometimes. Not everything is about America.
Oh damn I’m not one to defend the USA, but in this case I have to say, it’s not just you. I feel we absolutely live in the age of entitlement, as in, that is the biggest problem right now, and might even destroy us.
You have these far right movements going on everywhere, and they literally consist of people who, when presented with scientific facts, insist that they are entitled to have their opinion that says otherwise. And politically correct people can feel pushed to agree that, yes, they are entitled to their opinion.
But while that whole group is either that entitlement or selective ignorance, it absolutely exists on the left, too, like you said. I’ve run into LGBT+? folks that go “it’s not your time to talk, it’s your time to listen” in a comment thread. I’ll gladly talk WITH people in a respectful way, but if you just want to talk AT me… No, you’re not entitled to me being an audience for some kinda narcissist savior fantasy.
The red pill bugs, who feel entitled to women’s bodies. The female counterparts, who feel entitled to men paying for everything. The parents who feel entitled to everybody accomodating their kids. The customers who feel entitled to mistreat service workers. The people who say “I deserve” where others say “I earned”.
Entitlement, man. Work on not being entitled, and you’re already a saint among sinners.
Yeah, you’re not required to sit there and be talked at like a child. That kind of behavior makes me shutdown 100%. When I was a kid and adults resorted to yelling, I just assumed they were inept at communicating and tuned them out. It carried over into adulthood too. If a manager acted that way, I walked out and quit (I’ve done it twice in my life now). It’s similar to police in America expecting respect simply because they have a badge. Respect is earned.
The red pillers thinking they have autonomy over another human is a whole other level of insanity.
All of this entitlement and inability to communicate with respect is unique to 2 countries: America and Israel. Both are places that have drilled exceptionalism into their core values. I’ve yet to see other countries behave this way. A good litmus test for this is to use Rednote for a few months. Join chat groups, post about yourself and your country, engage with people. Your experience there will be 10x different than on Instagram. People on Facebook and Instagram will quickly resort to talking shit and being abrasive. On Rednote, the experience is completely different.
It’s even worse on websites where OPs can delete comments arbitrarily
I think the only unifying theme to South Park is that everything can be funny.
I would say that generally the characters with the least power are treated in the most sympathetic way, though, and those with the most power are painted with the worst brush.
They do have a sense of good and evil, but also acknowledge that evil is often given free reign because good people have a hard time organizing and gaining consensus as to what needs to be done about it.
I think some of the episodes have put light on things that need it. Scientology spring to mind.
Tourette Syndrome is another one.
The one thing they do is skewer pomp and pretension. They are the guys at a dinner party who say “everybody poops so why can’t we talk about it?” Or will ask the minister about his sex life if he asks about their relationship to God.
It can be genuinely stupid and annoying sometimes because it’s a blunt instrument. They assume that everything is fine and that anyone passionate about a cause is a misguided idiot.
Honestly, this.
No one is above reproach and they stay on the pulse.
However, I find the humor dated. It’s like if Jim Carrey did 30 sequels to Ace Ventura.
The Ace Ventura one is particularly apt because the one group they still punched down on a lot was trans people…
I haven’t noticed them punching down on trans people.
The entire arc with Mr/Ms Garrison?
How is that anti trans? Garrison was trans, then wasn’t, what about it? I fail to see how that is anti trans
Because literally the entire episode is basically “You will never be a real woman, no matter what”. Perpetuating the that trans people getting gender affirming care don’t know what they’re doing and are just mutilating their bodies. There’s literally a line where Garrison is talking to their doctor and says something along the lines of “Wait, so I’m basically just a dude with a fucked up dick?” and the doctor responding in the affirmative.
I genuinely really like a lot of stuff from Trey and Matt, but that’s one of a couple times where it felt far less like “poking fun” and was intentionally portraying trans people in a harmful way, in a way that an episode like “The Cissie” didn’t do nearly as aggressively.
I haven’t watched it in probably 20 years (whenever those episodes came out, time is an illusion and lunch time doubly so), but wasn’t that whole arc about Mr Garrison thinking they had to be a woman because they’re attracted to men and therefore couldn’t just be a gay man? Which seems more about old school homophobia or maybe the transphobic “trans women are just gay men trying to trick straight men into sleeping with them” autogynephelia thing. Plus there were all the usual Republican “I’m not 5ft 11! I’m trans 6 feet!”, trans-species, and trans-race “jokes” that are transphobic. Those were basically 1 step removed from them making an “attack helicopter” joke (if that).
Also, this?
Garrison was trans, then wasn’t
That’s transphobic. Being trans isn’t any more of a choice than being gay. Kissing the homies goodnight with full tongue isn’t you deciding to be gay for a day and then deciding to be straight again, and experimenting with your gender isn’t waking up one morning and deciding to be trans for a day.
You may try it and decide that it isn’t for you, but that doesn’t mean that you were trans or gay and now aren’t anymore. It just means that you ran an experiment that helped you learn more about yourself.
And to go further, breaking gender stereotypes (like femboys do, for example) doesn’t make you trans either, but it does make you cool for being brave enough to give the finger to society by not playing the stereotype they expect you to play. And if you try it and decide you don’t like it? That’s cool too, you were brave enough to step outside your comfort zone and the rules society wants to force you into in order to try something new.
It’s fine if OOP hates South Park. It’s a divisive show. However, dark humor is indeed a valuable thing. Yes, sometimes assholes call sexism, racism, homophobia (etc) “dark humor” in an attempt to excuse what they know is wrong, but that doesn’t mean that the concept of dark humor is flawed.
Dark humor is often used to mock and/or point out hypocrisy. Sometimes it deliberately makes us uncomfortable. We should always reflect on ourselves and our culture as a whole. That’s a vital part of becoming a better person.
If OOP chose to “mute” me for expressing that opinion, I don’t think I’d be missing much.
The inherent problem with any satire labeled as “dark” is that people generally lack the ability to determine it as a satirical work of art.
In general I think it’s a valuable form of art. However, if you don’t hammer the point that you are actively mocking your target of satire and disavow the audience who are mistakenly attracted to it, then I think it can do more harm than good.
I think this is where I am on the fence with it when it comes to some comedians who claim they are engaging in dark works of satire, but are comfortable with having a large portion of their audience being right winged chuds who don’t understand its satire.
This transgresses pretty much all works of satire. A good example being the 40k franchise, which started out as a satirical commentary against fascism, specifically against Thatcherism. Eventually they had a large contingency of people who are unironically fans of the Empire. Though they have recently taken steps to mitigate this, they did spend decades making money from these types of people.
The unfortunate result of this “requirement” for creators to clarify their position such that everyone consuming the work understands that it’s satire, is the complete and utter loss of subtlety. Because now you’re just dumbing down your work to the level of the slowest kid in the classroom who, as the last decade has proven, is in fact very slow indeed. It would be one thing if bigots were known for their intellect and media comprehension skills, but alas…
Call me a brunch liberal or whatever but this whole mindset makes media boring. It’s for people who think of art as propaganda more than self-expression.
Don’t dumb shit down for literal Nazis. Honestly I might go ahead and say all it does is give them more things to point to to say “WOKE MEDIA IS BAD.” Because stuff written like this really does blow.
The only reason I know about 40k is MUTHA FUCKIN BOLT THROWER !!! Best metal band ever
How dare you like something I don’t like?
Ok, so when trying to explain it. You will mute me… Great start of the convo ;-)
Gotta love those people.
“Anyone trying to use the obvious rational argument will be blocked!”
dark humor is not making fun of marginalized people, I’d call that bullying instead. you can make trans dark humor without being transphobic (e.g. joking around waiting lists), so answering transphobic complaints with “its dark humor” is not really good faith arguing
Dark humour aside, what the aim really is, is to hold up a mirror to issues the mass populous takes for granted, after slow drip erosion of societally accepted rights. It’s a fight back against the mass media and thier ilk, beating you about the head with “these people are bad because…” so you go along with hunting them down, but really they’ve found a convenient way to remove YOUR rights, or distract you into not noticing something egregious they’ve done. We become desensitised to things, and south park rips that bandage off fast and painfully, by design. They show you the things you have become desensitised to, in massively parodied, over the top, over exaggerated version, so you see through your former brain washing or desensitisation. If you don’t pay attention, you don’t notice the messages always pointing out how egregious the thing actually is. I would suggest, if you have that opinion, you’ve never actually really watched south park.
And really none of us should talk from a bias, we should employ critical thinking and inform ourselves fully, before making definitive statements. So, go watch… I’ll bet you change your mind.
Oh no, please don’t mute me, you mirthless twat.
Humour of color
Ftfy
Either everything is funny or nothing is
South Park isn’t exactly homophobic, it seems to treat homosexual and transexual characters such as Ms. Garrison with more respect than the rest of the cast, tbh.
The jokes kind of stem from this idea that if something is different than the expectation then that makes it funny, including societal expectations like omission of poop or sexuality: like when Tad Mikowski gets distracted by “start the reactor” from the movie Total Recall.
I’m not sure if OOP understands context; yes South Park has made jokes that could be construed as homophobic and not all of their older episodes have aged well (e.g. the core message of the episode about why it should be okay to use the f-slur, although it’s worth noting that the episode is generally sympathetic to people who face anti-gay bigotry), but they also had an entire episode against homophobia in season one, way back in the 90s and well before gayness was widely accepted in American society. With the noted exception of Mr Garrison (admittedly a very large elephant in the room), South Park’s portrayal of gay characters has almost always been sympathetic, and the simple fact of their inclusion used to be quite progressive (including, I would argue, their handling of a gay Satan early in the series).
Now their portrayal of trans issues has been more problematic, but at least it’s showing signs of evolving in a positive direction, which is more than I can say of society as a whole, and it could have been so much worse (they never even approached Ace Ventura levels of transphobia, for example). Considering also South Park’s handling of literally every other issue they’ve tackled over the decades, irreverence is obviously their MO, so OOP’s desired level of unequivocal acceptance is a bit ridiculous to expect. Their irreverence has allowed them to play the role of joker, which has in turn given them a lot more leeway than most shows in lambasting and criticizing truly deserving targets.
But mostly, expecting perfect levels of political correctness from a show that’s three decades old and that made a name for itself by covering hot topic issues is just ludicrous.
I disagree about Garrison. While Ms. Garrison wasn’t portrayed as a very likeable character, she was always shown as somebody confident and self-empowering. She went on a journey, discovered herself, and was immediately fired from her job as a teacher: we the viewers were meant to be sympathetic to that plight. Later, she is depicted as sleeping with Richard Dawkins an uncomfortable number of times on screen, which is clearly not a visual that a homophobe would create.
I haven’t seen the detransition episodes, though, so maybe those were different.
I agree on the other stuff you said, though, especially the irreverence and their role as jokers.
I would need to go back and rewatch the early episodes to have a confident take on Mr/Ms Garrison, but the biggest problem with the character IMO is that they are consistently one of the most garbage characters in the series, yet for a long time were the only part of the main-ish cast who were gay, and afaik is the only trans character at all (I’m blanking on any other trans characters besides “Heather,” a fake-trans, although I haven’t watched the most recent seasons). So while I would argue that Garrison was portrayed as a bad person who happens to be gay/trans rather than bad because of their gay/transness (basically the whole point of the episode where the kids are uncomfortable with Mr Slave, which the parents misinterpret as homophobia), it’s not a great look for that to be the only LGBTQ+ character outside of a few minor characters, and I certainly would be understanding of folks who take offense at this. But as you say, it’s not all black and white; even Garrison’s sexuality/identity journey is handled sympathetically at times, and the other LGBTQ+ characters are handled quite sympathetically on the whole. That said, the series leans very heavily on the “G” part of that acronym, but that’s not too surprising in a show that’s always been from a primarily male perspective.
