- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- world@lemmy.world
Many international fans visiting the US for the World Cup have become frustrated by the culture of tipping servers, telling the BBC that tipping fatigue has set in.
England supporter Geoff Pryor said he understood tipping for good service, but he found it “weird” when buying a bottle of water and “they try to get a tip for doing nothing”.
In the US, staff at some restaurants and bars are paid just over $2 (£1.50) an hour, and they expect customers to tip about 20% of the total cost of the bill so they can earn a living.
Frustrations have also been shared by hospitality staff, with one bar owner telling the BBC that many World Cup tourists have been bad tippers.
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How many times is this shit going to get reposted?
This is why no one should ever visit the States for holidays. Lots of better countries to go that don’t have this bullshit.
This shit is being pushed so much that I’m starting to think it’s just more culture wars shit to keep sowing division between people
Or… And hear me out…
America is a genuinely corrupt and exploitative country that your own society perpetuates by allowing these oppressive standards on your fellow low wage citizens to continue to be the norm.
Or, you know…
‘No Way to Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens
I’m an American. I love my country, and I’m proud to call myself a patriot.
Unfortunately, you’re right.
I just want people to know that there are genuinely good people here. There are countless kind, generous, and decent Americans, and there are so many things about this country that are worth loving.
My wife wasn’t born here. She’s only lived in the United States for about three or four years, and she has very strong opinions about our culture, society, and politics. I keep telling her that she arrived at one of the worst moments in recent American history.
I hate that this is the version of America the rest of the world is seeing. I know we’re capable of being better than this, and I hope one day we’ll prove it.
To everyone watching from abroad: I’m sorry. I wish we were showing you the best of America instead of the worst.
“I keep telling her that she arrived at one of the worst moments in recent American history.”
The whole thing around tipping in restaurants and bars has been a thing for decades in America.
Yes but I was responding to the comment above not to the post itself… 🤷
Or… And hear me out
Let’s not generalize 345 million people.
Your comment is morally defensible, yet on Lemmy and Reddit, saying “don’t generalize an entire country’s population” often gets heavily downvoted. Years ago, I was even permanently banned from r/Ukraine for arguing that ordinary Russians shouldn’t be demonized because of the actions of their government.
I suspect this is driven by a mix of factors: nationalism, prejudice, the emotional impact of war, and the tendency to view conflicts in terms of collective guilt. When people are angry or grieving, nuance is often the first casualty.
It absolutely is. Trump created the July 2025 law “No Tax on Tips.”
I never tip, unless i received exceptional service.
Then again i only eat out at venues where I pay up front or self serve, or in places so posch - I actually WANT to tip the staff for providing an outstanding experience.
On the rare occation I am in a venue where tipping is expected and service and experience are not phenomenal I do not tip and happily send any staff to fuck right off if approached - that sort of establishment SHOULD go under.
You suck for not tipping people who are paid in tips.
You suck for living in a nation that allows employers to use tips to make up a half decent wage.
Yes I have a choice in that matter. I live in a reality of tipped wages and I have solidarity with the people who labor under it
That’s not solidarity in terms of labour. It’s just accepting the status quo, while doing a lip service to the people affected. If you really want to show solidarity, join a union and participate in collective action to improve the working conditions. The more people a union has, the stronger it can get. Worker rights in Europe didn’t come out of the good hearts of politicians or companies.
You fight the system by fighting the system, not punishing people who are even more vulnerable to the cruelty of the system.
Then join a union.
I’m literally in the IWW
Actual clown take
I have solidarity with the people who labor under the system.
Yeah, pay a livable salary and fuck off with begging for money.
You are only harming workers and are an asshole if you withhold tips.
Tell that to the owner and not the staff.
It is not the owner’s fault, it is everyone as a nation, accepting the practice and blaming customers.
It’s very much also the owners. Outsourcing your staff’s salaries to the customer while being able to advertise cheaper prices is an incredible deal for them while dropping all of the responsibility on the customers.
The customers end up paying the extra however you slice it. Be it tips, a non optional gratuity, or baked into the price. Most restaurant margins are surprisingly low, its not like theyre being greedy and hoarding the ‘extra’ money that would otherwise go to servers salary.
The tip passing direct from the customer to the staff prevents it from being taxed 2x, (both sales and income dont get charged on tips) you’d be adding an extra 10% or more on top of the 20% if you moved to to a baked in cost.
You guys are always so worried about your taxes. With the current administration I can see why, I guess. We’re not asking to not pay what we owe, we’re just asking that what we owe be transparent, like in a civilised country.
Why do you give the employer a pass and blame the customer?
I don’t get the employer a pass. But I live in a reality of tipped wages and have had a job like that before. I have solidarity with those workers by helping the make a livelihood. Me not tipping only benefits me and the owner. Not the laborer. It is immoral to withhold the money earned
The employer is the one withholding the money earned, the customer is simply paying the price that is advertised. The employer is the one that is exploiting the cheap labor, and if the labor looks to the customer to fix it it’s not going to work out.
You fight the system by fighting the system, not punishing people who are even more vulnerable to the cruelty of the system.
Employers paying shitty wages are punishing workers, this is the source of your complaint. If workers got a fair wage to begin with, you wouldn’t give a shit about tipping. But employers pay a shit wage and have successfully got people like you to blame and shame customers instead of them. If you think this will resolve by arguing with the customers that aren’t subsiding the wages, well, good luck with that.
Cool story. Good way to have solidarity with workers
No, you suck for accepting and perpetuating a culture where it is necessary. Do the right thing and refuse to go along with it. Insist that all staff are paid livable wages. Petition your state to force the issue if necessary.
Yes because me not tipping is going to end the system. Not tipping only benefits me and the owner. The staff is fucked. Only assholes think their individual lack of tipping with change a system. Systematic change requires a system to change.
Pay your staff properly
I have only read the comments here. I see employers are not paying minimum wages is the problem here.
If minimum wages were paid tipping or not tipping is a question of good service and appreciation and not a question of survival.
Place the blame on the business owners who refuse to pay fair wages to employees. This is a criminal act and customer not tipping is just a question of social politeness.
Minimum wage isn’t enough to live off of in any city.
There should never be an incentive for someone to work hard. The incentive is the paycheck. If they give bad service you fire them, every other scenario should be they are paid fairly and the customer leaves happy because they got good service.
Exactly. Like every other job, poor work performance should be handled by feedback and clear targets, with dismissal used as a last resort.
Nobody should be forced to give fake smiles to appease awful customers in order to not starve.
“We need at-will employment to ensure good service”
“We need to allow tips to ensure good service” Naw the tips are there so they can list lower prices than you’re going to pay.
Kinda weird that US culture tends to demonize handouts, yet handouts in the shape of tips are expected and you’re a bad person for not providing them.
Aha, but the great old USA love to think it’s a meritocracy, and since tipping is something that was originally merit based, it’s a very American expression. You work a little harder, you get a little extra.
But also, in a uniquely American way, capitalism turned tipping a moral dilemma.
Also, tipping is a way to legalize paying marginalized groups less. It enables a system where young attractive White people make more money for the same work.
Handouts are accepted based solely upon how much money you make.
If you’re poor? You’re a leech on society.
If you’re rich? You clearly know money and you’ll obviously invest that back into the economy and it’ll trickle down to the poor people any minute now.
Handouts to people are demonized.
Handouts to companies are perfectly fine.
Tips get a pass because everyone (at least instinctively) understands it is benefiting the company more than the people officially receiving it.
deleted by creator
Dont visit here. Problem solved.
That’s not happening. Football fans are irrational, they’ll follow their teams anywhere, no matter how bad, even places like qatar or us.
All you can do is refuse to tip in solidarity with the workers.
No service worker appreciates that crap.
Maybe but their boss appreciates customers handling performance bonuses a lot more.
And apparently in the US they don’t even have to pay them minimum wage so it’s a win/win for management getting to treat their staff like slaves.
Actually no, in most places management DOESNT like it when that happens. If the worker doesn’t get enough tips to make minimum wage they have to pay them that wage.
Put it this way, if they have only had to pay a worker $20 a night for so long it’s almost part of their budget. If all of a sudden they have to pay double or even triple that (or more depending on the state) they they have to cough up way more money than they want and that eats into their pockets.
Don’t get me wrong it sucks for the service worker. Now they are making 1/3 or what they usually do or worse. But it’s not a performance review and the boss isn’t happy about it.
The tipping culture is stupid here and it needs to end, but I would hate to do it on the backs of hard-working people.
If the worker doesn’t get enough tips to make minimum wage they have to pay them that wage.
So you can admit that it’s just subsidizing management but still think tipping isn’t to benefit them.
So you admit they do have to pay minimum wage? (Clearly a foolish way to make a point)
Take what is said and don’t change the message. Doing that weakens your argument.
To your point yes and no. It does NOT subsidize MANAGMENT, if puts money in the pockets of the owner. Clearly you are a fool because you make a point and ignore the specific example that helps your argument. “They don’t like it because they have to then pay the minimum wage.”
You clearly ignore everything I have said and missed the message. It does not benefit management. It benefits the owner.
So you admit they do have to pay minimum wage?
Yes, I took what you said as correct.
I see management as an arm of the bourgeoisie, not as an ally to the proletariat.
As such
. It does not benefit management. It benefits the owner.
This is a distinction without a difference.
Then you are a fool. Managers in these places make about $5 an hour more but do not get tips. Meaning they make less in general and are doing the job of two. Clearly you don’t understand anything about the situation. Stop making an argument you know nothing about because you didn’t even know the rules about minimum wage here.
Ultimately, you are correct.
You’re also probably being downvoted by service workers who rely on tips to earn a living.
That’s the double-edged sword. Almost nobody likes tipping, and most people would prefer a system where workers are simply paid a fair wage. The reality, however, is that tipping currently makes up a substantial portion of the income for millions of people.
The only way to eliminate tipping is for people to stop participating in the system altogether, forcing businesses to adopt a different compensation model.
The unfortunate part is that the transition wouldn’t be painless. Until those businesses adapt, a very large number of workers would bear the cost, putting them at a significant financial disadvantage.
Go fuck yourself.
A very simple solution is for restaurants to offer a second all-inclusive version of the menu with taxes and suggested tipping included in the prices. Can’t cost more than a half hour of work and the price of ten printed pieces of paper.
So if you order from the all inclusive menu you are served by a different server who is paid properly?
Same server, but now they get a commission on that check instead of a tip. They get the same 20%, but you now pay an extra 10% in taxes on the higher bill. And youre now their lowest priority table after ordering, because the commission is already locked in
Are Americans really this stupid and brainwashed into thinking this is OK?
What I’m saying is just take the existing price, add the sales tax, add a 15% tip, and show the resulting price to the tourists. Same result, less head math for the tourists.
If you want proper wages for workers, you need unionization.
When I was in the US it was just confusing sometimes. Like I went to this restaurant to order a pizza, to-go. They had a sign outside and the pizza was like 18 dollars, but when you want to pay its more because of tax, and now they also expected a tip. Ok but it’s to go right? So you also tip when getting groceries? The entire system just felt very arbitrary.
Each place has its peculiarities. Bagging groceries and sorting garbage in Germany. Avoiding giving offense when ordering food or coffee in Italy. Etc.
or how about fuck off with the tips and just pay employees a living wage. I the customer shouldn’t have to cover the gap in your employees wage.
You do realize the customer would pay either way. The prices will just go up to pay those wages (and now you also owe double taxes on it; both the sales taxes and the income taxes will get made up for on the top.)
Most ‘good’ restaurants will likely go to a commission based model, where that same 20% of sales goes to the waiter, but is included in the price, since tips are what motivate servers to upsell. 20% of $150 is beter than 20% of $100.
Without it theres no point in going out of your way to offer an appetizer or cocktail while they wait for the food, since its just creating more work for the same $/hr. Now the restaurant needs to raise prices even more to keep afloat, since sales are down.
And if they do go to commission, now the only thing thats changed is the servers motivation towards the guest. After everything is rung in, they’ve got their 20%; unless theres another sale to be made (a new cocktail, dessert, etc) theres no motivation to check back in until its time to drop the check. Because thats why tips are discretionary: to disincentivize poor service.
Ive seen it pretty much every way. I used to work at a country club that paid high hourly. Ive also been at a hotel where everything was auto grated.
Ive also noticed it traveling in europe. Id find myself deciding between dining in more touristy or more authentic spots depending on the level of care I wanted. Do i go to the bistro, where i wont get a chance to order a second coffee, and no one’s going to refill my water for the hour and a half im sitting for lunch, before someone finally makes eye contact and I can get my check, or do I go to the place in the tourist spot, where ill get everything I need and be out in 45 minutes, because they know I’m a tourist from a tipping country.
Yup. If you’re serious about it, and not just an upset customer, support hospitality workers’ unions.
A non insignificant number of owners would steal the money and you would still have to tip. Such is life here.
You make it sound like a third world banana republic…
Tipping culture is getting crazy.
It’s gotten out of hand. I ordered winter boots via an online shoe store and the check-out prompt asked if I would like to tip. There’s a tip prompt when I buy a container of carrot sticks at the roadside convenience store.
I would love to do away with the awkward conversations about what I’m doing next while using the point of sale terminal at restaurants. The ritual of annoying small talk in the hope that I select 20% for a tip is tiresome.
For some weird reason I read that whole post in the voice of the woman that does the virgin adverts in the UK.
For all you know, maybe I AM the voice of the ads!
it’s very possible.
Let’s fix this headline.
American’s Confused By Fair Wage Practices of Civilized Countries
The article could start like this:
Some Americans, more specifically those from the socalled “United States”, are confused by fair wages and other basic social norms on civilized countries.
Ci… Civ… Civ-il… Civil-i? Civil-iz? Civil rights? CIVIL RIGHTS COUNTRIES?! Does your country’s ICE know about this???
If there’s a problem, yo, they’ll solve it. Institutionalized racism, no laws to resolve it. ICE ICE baby
Really putting that vanilla in the ICE
Which American?
You know who! It’s the American with the Confused. He owns it!
It is completely out of control. I have been asked to tip at self operated vending machines. WTF?
That’s because vending machines aren’t actually paid at all and rely entirely on tips. Little known fact.
Damn. What a heartless bastard I am.
Stop being a robophobe
Clankist.
Genius.
They’re unconfigured PoS systems. Look at all the different PoS solutions out there. You never know where or when to tap your credit card, hit yes before or after the transaction is initiated. It’s generally smaller vendors not configuring non-out-of-the-box solutions. Simple as that.
Frustrations have also been shared by hospitality staff, with one bar owner telling the BBC that many World Cup tourists have been bad tippers.
Should read:
Frustrations have also been shared by hospitality staff, with one bar owner telling the BBC that many World Cup tourists have been making staff aware that I and other businesses are bad employers.
And he is.
Making others aware? (commendable)
or
A bad employer? (not so commendable)
Yeah, why’s the bar owner being quoted in a paragraph about the frustrations of hospitality staff? He’s the one not paying them a fair wage and expecting the customers to subsidize his payroll!
Welcome to the wage slave states of America! Hopefully you get out before you find out how much I.C.E. costs here. Ha!
Seriously don’t come here if you value your safety or your possessions.
