Everyone should have this
Just remember, it’s not a lie if you believe it.
“Are you lying? It’s illegal to lie to me.”
“No. I am not lying.” (lie)
That’s just kicking the can down the road
It’s hard to enforce since no one can understand what they say
/s
Colonial English bullshit
Tbh it’s deeper than that, it’s colonial Roman bullshit. Welsh (and Gaelic) persisted through the spread of both Italic and Germanic languages which enveloped the rest of Western Europe, so it looks and sounds alien to virtually everyone else nearby. Bit of a badge of honor imo
That’s mostly it, though it is true that I can’t understand or read Welsh and like to give my friend shit about it in a fun way. Besides, I’m from the US, we’re a complete farce at this point and I get it back many times over.
But who determines what’s a lie?
I assume it would work like a perjury trial, where you have to prove they lied beyond a reasonable doubt in the court of law. So its basically like theyre always under oath.
This is the only way that makes sense. Lots of people complain when a politician breaks campaign promises like:
“I am going to lower the cost of living”.
It’s not really a lie when they fail cause it isnt just up to them. Weaker wording like:
“I am going to try to lower the cost of living”
Would be technically non-falsifiable, but not actually matter to people.
The only things that I think would actually make sense to prosecute are intentional misrepresentation of facts, or decisions that are directly in their power.
Yeah I would go even further and say it shouldn’t apply to broken promises unless there is evidence they never intended to do it. Like maybe they promise “I will [reverse some policy] on day one” and then, idk the country goes to war and reversing that policy isn’t feasible. I dont think politicians should be criminally liable for that.
Ah, truthiness.
Not many people know this, but George Washington didn’t originally say, “I cannot tell a lie.” It was actually, “I can only tell truthiness.” It was Abraham Lincoln that later convinced him to adjust the wording going forward.
Well that was strongly do to the fact that Bob Ross had advised many of the kids couldn’t tell if Washington was saying lie or die, and such intensity at such height could come across as frightening.
Ok, who decides what is a lie and what is a mistake
Wikipedia?
If I were to guess, it’d be a jury. If people agree it was a lie then it was a lie. You need to at least be honest enough that a jury wouldn’t agree it was a lie. I have no idea on this though, nor how the Welsh legal system functions, so don’t take my word on it. This just seems like the only reasonable option.
Courts? That’s kind of their thing.
Sure, if you trust them. Not sure how objective they are in Wales but a lot of our courts here are pretty corrupt. Plus it’s just going to be very hard to prove because you can always claim you genuinely believed what you said.
In theory I love the idea of holding people who lie to the public accountable but I’m just not sure how well it will work in practice. I guess we’ll find out.
Here?
USA
Or just go about it as most US politician do when in front of a judicial panel, “I don’t recall.”
What are you talking about? They obviously only say that when they all of a sudden totally can’t recall during the hearing.
The philosopher kings
Oh well that should be fine then.
I’d rather debate that than the efficacy of vaccines
You mean after someone’s been jailed for telling a lie that the current government/judge decided was a lie?
If they say something that isn’t true, it’s a lie. Not exactly rocket science.
You’ve just defined being wrong as a crime.
Then say “I don’t know” of you don’t know. It should be a crime to knowingly misleading people on important matters.
They are supposed to work us, we are their bosses.
That’s not what I said.
I said “being wrong”, not “knowing one is wrong and then BSing anyway”
Edit: that’s kind of the point. Lying requires malicious intent.
It’s much more nuanced than that. Denying climate change is a lie. Disagreeing with various projections could be lying, ignorance, or genuine criticism. The UK government has proclaimed Palestine Action to be a terrorist organization, which is clearly untrue. Would contradicting such a lie proclaimed as truth by the current government be deemed lying?
The law would not come into effect until 2030 at the earliest and will not apply to May’s elections.
It seems like a very targetted law that could work well. If I understand correctly, the law about lying is specifically for during the time of elections. The misconduct part still applies at other times.
I’d like to see this here since the leader of my country is a documented liar.
It’s better to have the law than not as the threat of prosecution can change behaviour.
However, I do think that it is very easy to avoid telling a lie while still misleading people. It’s a thing that politicians do so much it’d be a required skill listed in the job ad if one was posted.
The infamous Brexit bus only implied that we would be able to increase NHS funding by £350 million per week if we left the EU.
Even if you do say something that’s untrue it’d have to be proven that you knew it to be untrue at the time that you made the statement.
I think that you’d basically need to admit to lying or say something so ridiculous that it couldn’t possibly be true to get caught.
And the cops get badminton rackets.
