cross-posted from: https://scribe.disroot.org/post/11255432
73% of EU citizens now believe that Europe should act more independently of the United States in the future. In 2024, this figure stood at 63 per cent.
At the same time, the study shows that the growing distance from the US is not reflected in a closer relationship with China. China continues to be viewed with widespread scepticism. 77% are in favour of reducing economic and political dependencies – even if this could entail economic disadvantages.
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As an addition: I find it weird that so many comments here in this thread are - once again - bashing the U.S. and Russia, but are completely ignoring the fact that China is as unpopular. Some misled propaganda parrots are even criticizing the EU for being critical of China. That’s almost hilarious.
It’s not surprising at all. China is a known quantity, it’s old news that they are an adversary. The US is a situation that has fully developed over the second Trump term. The rest of the world thought Trump 1 was aberration, Trump 2 is a confirmation of the path the US is heading down and we’re also way more integrated with the US in terms of military and tech and that’s a situation that obviously needs to change. If you want an example of why, look at the ICC judges that were debanked and blocked from accessing their emails accounts, etc. That’s the leverage the US is willing to exploit and you would be a fool to leave yourself in that position. And the US being the sole provider of AI to the west… Oh boy…
I agree with your view. It’s certainly a reason why so many ‘only’ condemn the U.S., but some of the commenters are apparently Chinese propaganda parrots (but, yes, they also exploit this leverage you are talking about if I get you right).
Have you heard of horseshoe theory ? That’s basically Lemmy, people that are so far left they stand up for people who hate them
I am asking the world to turn its back on America. I say this as an American citizen.
If they mistreat me this badly, one of their own, just think of how they’ll betray you.
The EU hasn’t got a choice. The US is no longer an ally.
The US is. It’s branches of government aren’t. If I were the EU I’d be investing more into the USA’s political sphere, especially since it’s basically 100% legal to just pump money into a stateside shell company and have that company lobby congress.
I think some Americans seem to be decent people who like Europe, but many Americans, including the current US government and all their supporters, clearly would be completely happy to see Europe invaded or destroyed.
I think you’re out of touch. Policies popular with a very large majority of US Citizens have not been reflected in politics because one of the two major parties are serial liars and their voting base are easily mislead.
Yeah the US is getting to be as corrupt as Russia now. The EU had a trading relationship Russia for a while under similar conditions. How did that work out again?
Comparing the USA and Russia is pretty silly given the state of the USA can be attributed to Chinese and Russian interference.
Yes a country exhibiting the properties of another country that it’s influenced by is completely silly!
Once Trump’s gone things are not going to magically return to normal. Nutters like Musk and Thiel will still be infliencing things. Vance and Millar will still be around. None of these people are going to see justice.
America voted Trump in twice in two separate sittings and it’s quite obvious that a large enough slice of the population is a-okay with his policies and shitting on allies.
It’s too much of a risk to have such close integration that our defence posture and economy are overly dependent on how many voters turn up in southern states.
It would be absolute negligence for Europe to accept going back to the way things were beforehand and a total waste of money trying to influence their elections. We should work on areas that don’t leave us liable to be extorted but should always keep America at arms length like we do with the chinese. I mean christ we’re pulling out our gold now due to the risk it might be used against us.
He didn’t get 50% of the vote either time and things are much better for the USA, NATO, and the EU with the DNC in charge.
Don’t act like Trump’s illegal tarriffs and friendship with (subservience to) Putin are the norm.
Don’t act like Trump’s illegal tarriffs and friendship with (subservience to) Putin are the norm.
It has very obviously been the norm for the last decade.
I don’t know how you can keep pretending it’s not.
Because things were measurably and visibly better under DNC leadership without fail.
And how many American voters just DNGAF and stayed at home? It’s a coin flip now which US you’re going to be dealing with every election cycle. MAGA isn’t going back in the bag, it’s just going to morph into America First.
Trump was America taking its mask off, it’s spelled out now in big letters “we have leverage, were going to use it and make you know we’re using it too”. That 30% of Americans absolutely love it. Is the next GOP ignore the base on this and say that alliances are beneficial? Of course not, they are going to blame them for taking American jobs and not paying their way in NATO and all the other MAGA guff.
The EU population is now aware of our vulnerability to the US and how the US wants to exploit it. It’s not going to be politically tenable for EU leadership to pretend like nothing happened over the last 10 years. You can’t make long term plans with a country that is so unstable.
It’s not just the EU, South Asians now cannot count on Americans to be around to back them up and are having to re-evaluate their alliances and cosy up to China more. And the Canadians? Well…
8 million people who voted for Biden didn’t show up for Kamala Harris, in very large part because of intervention by China utilizing TikTok.
And now China is helping the AfD rake in gains in Germany and similar actions across the EU.
That’s exactly what I mean when I say the EU is better off with the USA and should be spending resources to counter the eastern bloc before it becomes too late.
The trust is broken. We can’t be an ally on and off every 4 years. The US supported Orban and AfD etc, it’s clear that we are on different paths. Personally I will never want Europe to be an ally to the US again.
Then enjoy having a third militaristic autocratic world power because you chose to do nothing, dufus.
And who else is appearing at AfD events and actively helping them? Elon Musk. What democrat is going to have the balls to take him on and remove his wealth? It’s just not happening, the US is always going to be a problem for the rest of the world now the US oligarchs have played their cards and now can’t slink back into the shadows for fear of reprisals.
If we saw a DNC leader that actually broke up big tech, nationalised Elons Musks SpaceX, held trials for the Trump administration then we might start warming to you again. But it’s fantasy stuff, I will make a prediction now that you won’t even remove the ballroom, at best it will be renamed to someone the right hates and then renamed again back to Trump when the GOP come back to power. A disappointing amount of Trumps damage will be repaired and China is going overtake the US to become the new world super power.
It is the DNC platform to tax wealth, Kamala Harris’ tax plan on her official 2024 campign website was to tax unrealized gains of millionaires and higher.
So, all of them.
A country that switches allegiances every few years cannot be an ally. The US is less stable than fucking Russia, and we can’t count on them, regardless of who’s sitting in the big chair. Even if there were an EU-friendy president in the US, one midterms gone wrong can make that president a lame duck; and there’s also the christofascist supreme court.
As long as the US does not clean house by restructuring the constitution, limit the power of the executive branch, make bad supreme court appointments not a decade long ball-on-a-chain, make sure that every vote has the same power, outlaw PACs and gerrymandering, and stop messing around with the lives of people in other countries and their own, they can’t be an ally for the EU.
If people think the USA is as bad as it can get then you’re all in for an absolutely wild ride if the GOP keep winning like that have the past decade.
Oh i know that it will get worse. The US are undergoing a similar process as Russia was after the USSR collapsed. They will be a democracy on paper - but only there, and their warmongering will only get worse.
This. Project 2025 did not stop at 2025. The US is going to get worse, not better, and it doesn’t matter who winds their elections anymore. I live in the US and I can promise this. I have seen and talked to the societal trash that still supports the GOP. They simply blame the left for everything, cannot think for themselves, and are excited to further shatter the country.
Oh it matters who wins the election. Thats actually the deciding factor completely.
I am not confident voting in Democrats is going to change the trajectory. It may make things look better on paper but it is still straight up fascism and murder on a massive scale.
27% of people living in an alternate reality. Even if the next guy in the US is sane again, it’s impossible to predict when or why they’ll elect the next mental case.
We need not be beholden to the whims of the US voter. Yes we can ally on specific matters, but strategic a important areas need to be safeguarded from 1 partner (be it the US, China, or anyone else) flipping on a dime.
It could be that a percentage of those just don’t want a ban on cheap, but still good, solar panels from China or Something?
The EU tends to make rules that only harm the working class when “divesting” from foreign markets while not bringing any of the manufacturing or replacement products into EU production and not incentivizing such. See: electric cars, electronic components, textile production, etc…
But a majority are also skeptical of more EU-wide institutions and expanding the project in general, which is what it’s going to take to do that. We can’t have our cake and eat it too, here.
Nordics are finally taking a first step towards a combined stock market, which is a good start, but until we get an EU-wide one companies that start to see success are just going to keep jumping ship for US investment capital. Fractured markets, fractured militaries… nobody wants to hand more power to the EU, but they want the EU to be strong enough to be independent of the major powers while still being relevant on the world stage.
My bet is the EU is going to suffer further disintegration before the need for a real, democratic federation, not merely an economic union, becomes evident to most on the continent. There’s too many problems that can’t be solved within the current formation.
You may well be right.
