How is this true with germany having more immigrants and there basically never any looting happening at big protests?
Frances protests about the government underfunding social services? Shut the fuck up
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“In the face of this senseless destruction and unjustified violence, perhaps it is now clear to everyone why Hungary advocates the strictest possible approach to migration, and why we will not weaken our border protection or immigration policy under any pressure,“
He made no such distinction.
“Let there be no doubt: peaceful and lawful protest is one thing; vandalism and violence are quite another. The former is a fundamental right; the latter is a serious crime.”
Violence and vandalism are required tools if the first response to a peaceful protest is teargass cannisters.
This was a peaceful protest. Then France responded.
Protests always start peaceful.
Only if nobody listen do they ramp up and start glueing themselves to things.
And they will keep ramping up until somebody listens to their demands or the whole country burns.
…he’s talking about the badly integrated or straightout hostile to french society and culture who use the protests as an opportunity to go looting and destroying.
Where this?
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The violents are two groups:
left extremists and looters/vandals without political goalsIt’s two groups; undercover cops and those who enjoy acting out
If it’s just that, then why bring up border control and immigration? Just an unrelated aside? Or perhaps he’s implying the vandals and looters are… immigrants?
Either you are intentionally misleading and disingenuous or just plain ignorant.
Protests that don’t involve property damage are easy to ignore. Any protest of significant momentum will involve property damage if the state responds with violence, as is the case in France.
Looting is a result of youth and poverty, not culture, and the belief otherwise is racist. When immigrants are held to the underclass and murdered by the state, the immigrants are conveniently going to be encouraged to do looting on camera as a way to invalidate the broader protest.
I apologize for the slightly more aggressive framing previously.
Try Maidan 2013/2014: not easy to ignore, no looting. Protesters themselves protected shops against government-led thugs.
Looters harm the original goal and I find any attempts to justify it to be harmful, if your goal is to change anything.
I don’t have a pat response here, just a series of potentially conflicting ideas:
- participants in a riot each have individual goals, no one’s vetting at the door
- police/state actors have a vested interest in making the protest look bad or dangerous to the middle class
- looting big box stores is fully moral, if employees aren’t being harmed
I have no context why the French protesters didn’t stop some things and Ukrainian protesters did. I could baselessly speculate but regardless, the issues being protested are genuine and the media is going to amplify any property damage, or invent some if none is available otherwise. Recall how CHAZ/CHOP coverage looked in US media.
why are you insulting me? where is the racism in what i said?
I believe you didn’t intend this meaning but please take a momemt to reflect why people get mad at the argument in the way you stated it:
The problem is you attributed the looting and violence to ,people not well integrated". Which translates to ,those people cause problems because they’re (muslim, arab etc.) migrants", which indeed is a xenophobic/racisg argument as it attributes the unvavorable behavior to the ethnicity of the subjects. Reality is people loot and cause trouble because they’re marginalized and most of all because they’re poor. If you factor in those two aspects negative things like crime rates are no longer significantly different if you, for example, compare poor, marginalized French with and without migrational background.
No, it does not translate to that (?)
I said that one of two violent groups is largely of migrant background (probably more second and third generation than actual immigrants). And that they are badly integrated and often straight out hostile to French culture and society.
This is because in the reality thing out there that’s the case.
I did not even talk about the reasons you already assume i’m a racist and see it as a direct consequence of the race/culture of the immigrants.
I’m out of here, have fun in your bubble…
And that they are badly integrated and often straight out hostile to French culture and society.
And I told you that basing your argument about hate for France due to migration background and not socio-economic factors (which has been proven to be the main driver) makes your argument racist.
I did not even talk about the reasons you already assume i’m a racist
You just confirmed again above that immigration is to blame and that these people hate France… so what’s the problem with me implying that?
I’ve tried to explain to you why the argument you’re making is xenophobic or racist. Stick to your worldview if you want, after all, we still have freedom of speech, but then don’t complain when people call you racist for making arguments like that.
I’m out of here, have fun in your bubble…
The pot calling the kettle black.
So let’s both ride off into the sunset on our high horses…
I apologize. Easy to get wound up lately. i edited my comment
Apology accepted.
