AIPAC and it’s member, known for smuggling our tax dollar for genocide.
I find it deeply disturbing that when I opened the comment section of a post discussing 400 (now over 700) dead people, mostly innocent children, men, and women, in less than 48 hours, the first reaction was to blame “Arabs,” “Muslims,” “Tankies,” “Leftists,” and “Pro-Palestinians,” using these minority communities as tokens.
This is a glaring display f hypocrisy, these groups are portrayed in a positive light when it benefits politically, only to be thrown under the bus when they are no longer useful…
Any human capable of experiencing empathy would have first reacted with disgust and indignation at the unfolding genocide, rather than resorting to scapegoating and divisive rhetoric, but it may also not be organic comments, what do I know…
Apologies that this is the first you’re hearing about Israel/Palestine
Unfortunately it isn’t. When I have some time I call these things out and advocate because I think it’s important that we do not fall into this force feed normalization of cruelty.
Then why do you think people should be shocked rather than discussing causes?
Why exactly are you going after this person? No one but the fascists are interested in that. So why don’t you keep --whatever your complaints are about-- to yourself.
You’re an idiot if you don’t demand better from your side
May you explain with more clarity what you mean by causes?
Per your original comment, people are blaming minorities
Instead of saying they should be shocked, you should refute them
Indeed, it was mostly my first reaction and I should have added more arguments as to why I was thinking this way, I guess the fact that I was answering what I deem a dishonest and low-effort deflection made me react this way.
Though, I did follow up on multiple instances in this comment section about my opinion on the matter and explained it.
Edit: My bad, It wasn’t on this particular post I did not pay enough attention on where I said what. If you are interested in my POV you can find it on my profile.
I find it deeply disturbing that when I opened the comment section of a post discussing 400 (now over 700) dead people, mostly innocent children, men, and women, in less than 48 hours, the first reaction was to blame “Arabs,” “Muslims,” “Tankies,” “Leftists,” and “Pro-Palestinians,” using these minority communities as tokens.
Tankies are not “minority groups”…
This is a glaring display f hypocrisy, these groups are portrayed in a positive light only when it benefits politically, only to be thrown under the bus when they are no longer useful…
There is no hypocrisy. Arabs and Muslims are portrayed in a positive light to counter the American far right’s frothing hatred of them, that was the core reason.
Any human capable of experiencing empathy would have first reacted with disgust and indignation at the unfolding genocide, rather than resorting to scapegoating and divisive rhetoric, but it may also not be organic comments, what do I know…
“divisive rhetoric” you sound like a fucking centrist.
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I may have used the wrong word but I think you understood what I meant. It’s not an essay, I was displaying the fact that some minority opinions and certain groups of individuals get targeted because they are easy target that helps sway the blame away.
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About your second point, I don’t think it’s correct or else we wouldn’t be reading the gloating in the comments I’m targeting.
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I am not and will never be a centrist nor a republican, but I will criticize what I deem injustice, bad policies, weak strategies (like ostracizing more of your voter base to make them numb)… etc
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so long as trump, bibi, putin, and their sycophants are in power, pretty much every man woman and child in gaza is living on borrowed time.
No change since last war criminal in power either.
Which one? Literally every American president since the advent of international criminal law counts as a war criminal. I get you mean Biden, but American imperialism is one of the things wrong with the world.
No disagreement here
deleted by creator
When focusing on the Middle East, it isn’t a “Trump” issue… by only looking at the last 30 years, it becomes exceptionally obvious that it’s an American problem.
The US has been green-lighting genocide in the Middle East for decades. Party A only seems to notice when Party B takes over the White House. But this has been an ongoing horror story going back to Operation Ajax and the dismantling of the Egyptian democracy following the death of Gamal Nasser, largely through collaboration between the CIA, MI5, and the Mossad.
His base supporters don’t really know or care about the details, because they’re too invested in doing white nationalism at home. His opponents only seem to care about the genocide as far as it allows them to express racist sentiments toward Arab-Americans and other Muslim groups for being insufficiently enthusiastically liberal. His bourgeois supporters recognize genocide as a get-rich-quick scheme for their failsons and faildaughters.
This bloodshed won’t end before the western military occupiers are removed from the region. And I doubt I’ll see that happen in my lifetime.
The problem with you yanks is that you’re too far up your own asses. How predictable is it that the whole discussion under this post is about your last election. Nobody cares any more. Your country is lead by a fascist doing fascist things to you and abroad. And all you do is bicker about what happened half a year ago. Your country is wading in the waters of Rubicon, what are you going to do NOW about it?
Yeah because it’s impossible to talk about two things at the same time.
What good has analyzing our past decisions and their consequences ever been for us? /s
what are you going to do NOW about it?
This mess isn’t on some of us. Some of us tried very hard to prevent this outcome and now suddenly we’re expected to clean up other people’s fucking mess.
Nah, fuck that.
At what point did German complicity become a crime?
Was Einstein complicit when he fled? I intend to try and leave, or take refuge somehow.
No he wasn’t. I intend on the same.
You should just ask the AIPAC zionists this question and not us. We take orders from them.
Ask them what?
ah sorry man. I replied to the wrong person. I have failed, and feel shame. The reply was for @acargitz when he said:
Your country is wading in the waters of Rubicon, what are you going to do NOW about it?
Are you seriously trying to I pull a “it’s the Jews’ fault” right now?
the jews fault? no. Classic zionist deflection though on your part.
Are all jews zionists? no. I said zionists didnt I. And then you conflated that with judaism. Seems you’re an antisemite. Why are you lying about innocent moderate/reform jewish people?
the zionists fault? yes.
Zionism is a policy of violent land theft and murder. Look it up. Equating zionism with all of judaism is dishonest on your part. You’re using all jews as human shields to conduct your violence.
They have always wait for US green light to do it and they have always had it
They’ve been waiting for our permission each time?
But thank God we stopped Harris right?
Ugh…
Was Harris against what Israel was doing?
I can’t remember her stance.
No she was not, however there is a difference between someone indifferent to the suffering of others, and someone like Trump who thinks it’s funny
however there is a difference
There’s not. Condemnations and calls to peace do nothing when the flow of weapons and financial support is left untouched.
I sadly agree, Kamala wasn’t going to save Gaza, but she wasn’t going to fucking build a god damn resort on the remains of dead families either… So there’s that at least
She wouldn’t have built it. But would America have funded it? Absolutely. At least Trump is completely transparent about what would have happened regardless.
lol. I commented on a post saying that Harris would likely be handling the situation better right now, and I got told by one of the pro-Palestine crazies that they hope my family gets murdered…
Harris would have said not to do it while continuing to supply them with weapons.
Harris would have said she’s doing everything she can to stop this whole breaking federal laws to keep it happening.
I had conversations with many an accelerationist who supported Trump over Harris on Gaza. Pretty sure they were just full of shit and spreading misinformation.
I had conversations with many an accelerationist who supported Trump
uh huh, sure you did.
When people were actively arguing that Dems would be worse than Trump on Gaza they were either stupid or accelerationists. Especially considering these are self proclaimed “leftists” who apparently think Trump will usher in a tankie uprising. Not them of course, social media is full on revolutionary activism so they won’t be doing anything.
So tell me, did genocide and the destruction of 92% of the housing in Gaza happen on Bidens watch or not?
< and heres the part where I predict that you will downvote and run away, or reply angrily without answering this question>
The fact that you couldn’t see that Trump would be inarguably worse and/or didn’t care is why Palestine is going to wiped off the map and be but a footnote in history.
Theres that predicted avoidance to engage with the facts.
So this stuff we argue about evidently has nothing to do with the fact that Biden could have stopped the zionist gencoide of civilians but instead he chose to fund it and enocurage it. And Harris (with zionist funding, a zionist husband, zionist campaign advisors) promised to continue the genocide with no changes, same as trump. Pressuring Biden/Harris to change during the election was never on your radar was it. You hoped Harris would win and would… not do what he said she’d do? and just throw that sweet sweet massive AIPAC funding funnel? Because you believe politicians care what the people think after the election happens?
Seems like wishful thinking to me. Seems like the only time we have leverage as voters is during the election. And even then its up to our candidate to listen to the data and act on it.
The way I see it, Biden started a genocide, Trump and Harris both have pledged to continue it. Biden could have stopped it at any time. So could Harris during her campaign. And we had a time-bounded opportunity to pressure Biden/Harris to change but you lot were too scared to take it. I applied what pressure I could so evidently this entire genocide is my fault, does that sum up your assertions here?
You didn’t predict anything. But it’s clear only one of us is angry. Enjoy the rest of your day.
Seems like the only time we have leverage as voters is during the election.
And you predictably used that ‘leverage’ to make things much worse. Now we have 700 people routinely killed in one day under Trump, with total apathy from preople who used to cry ‘genocide’. Everybody with common sense knew that Gazans would be way worse off with Trump in the WH. Both the big increase in killings under Trump and the increase in apathy about the killings under Trump were things that we already knew were going to happen under Trump back when irresponsible people were crying “genocide” during the election. There was never any chance that you were going to improve things by doing that and the entirely predictable result in increases in both killings and apathy.
I have to believe the pro-Palestine crazies who call Harris voters Nazis are either Russian trolls or still too ashamed to admit they were conned into voting for Palestine’s complete destruction.
voting for Palestine’s complete destruction.
Gaza was already destroyed on your boy Biden’s watch.
Interesting. Weird that Israel is threatening its full destruction now instead of celebrating the fact it happened at least 3 months ago. Those genociders do be crazy.
Whats interesting is you pretending it hasnt happened when its been so widely reported.
I would like ANYONE to stick a camera into the face of these Arab and Muslim leaders who told their followers to help get trump elected because they didn’t think Joe Biden was acting fast enough or giving them the attention they wanted and ask them if their feelings are still hurt with news like this.
I’m sure the people of Gaza are so pleased with them and their stupidity
I love how the people that told you a year ago to shut up about Gaza because it was hurting Biden are now trying to guilt trip you about Gaza
BuT dOn’T vOtE fOr GeNoCiDe JoE!!1!1! ThE PrIcE Of EgGS!1!1!
And the trump admin wants to build seaside resorts in the purged Gaza then told us to STFu about eggs while the price more than doubled.
Democrats a year ago: Shut up about Gaza! there is no genocide, you are just being dramatic.
Democrats now: Ohh, poor gaza, why aren’t you doing anything about them? This is all your fault!!!
TF rock you been under? I have yet to encounter a dem, especially here, who hasn’t called Gaza some version of an open-air concentration camp run by Israel. Yeah, elected tools softballed the F out of it, but here you are… “DeMs BaD!1!1”. Same old shit. Pound sand with your appeal to hypocrisy.
“I have yet to encounter a dem, especially here, who hasn’t called Gaza some version of an open-air concentration camp”
You weren’t paying enough attention then.
Your average democrat was firmly on Israel’s side until it became politically convenient for them to pretend they always cared about Palestine.
Edit:
“Pound sand with your appeal to hypocrisy.”
Not my fault democrats are hypocrites.
There are far too many people on this earth who can only imagine black and white.
They can’t imagine you can have bad and you can have much worse and they are not the same thing.
Edit - in case the downvote wasn’t someone who voted trump to “save Palestine”, my point is you don’t save someone from bad by giving them worse. Which we did.
And not “voting for bad” while allowing worse is performative privilege.
I sure hope everyone who said “Genocide Joe” and “Kamala is a cop” sleeps well every night. Also those 100,000 Dem protest voters in Michigan.
You did it guys, you saved Gaza.
I’m sure those astroturfed, troll farm tools absolutely sleep fine.
Both Trump and Biden/Harris are terrible choices for Palestine. Having said that, count the number of Palestinian casualties under Biden and the number of Palestinian casualties under Trump. I’ll wait.
Also count the number of weeks of ceasefire brokered by Trump vs Biden.
Wait when did Trump broker ANY ceasefire?
A couple months ago when his envoy, Steve Witkoff, made Netanyahu meet him during Shabbat despite Netanyahu’s objections, and pressured him to accept the ceasefire deal.
Rofl that was JOE BIDEN’S ceasefire deal, Trump just happened to take office right before it was finalized.
Joe Biden presented the deal in May 2024 and Netanyahu quickly rejected it. It’s only when Steve Witkoff, Trump’s envoy, forced Netanyahu to meet during Shabbat and pressured him to take the deal that it the ceasefire actually happened, shortly before Trump’s inauguration.
The number of death in the last 3 month is comparable to the number of deaths in the last 4 years, is that what you are saying?
No, it is not comparable in any way shape or form. There have been hundreds of thousand of casualties under Biden’s presidency.
I feel like you’d buy a bridge from me.
If your bridge is as useless as your comment, probably not.
You can just say you don’t get it.
You can just leave me alone.
Where are the many leaders that, deciding to withhold support from Biden and the Democrats, sought to INCREASE support for Trump? I don’t see them.
Reducing support for one candidate lowers the threshold for the other to win, so staying home absolutely supports Trump, same with voting third party thanks to our wonderful system here
And exactly zero people are shocked by this.
Wow, the Gazan civilians must have done something really serious to merit being attacked like this, ending the cease fire…
Right? Um… right? /s
It’s absolutely giving horrible what’s happened and also absolutely predictable this type of behavior from Trump happened.
It’s just so extremely frustrating and sad.
if the brave hamas freedom fighters weren’t hiding behind them with the hostages using the gazans as human shields it would be easier
We get it, you’re a Zionist
De-development via the Gaza Occupation
Between July 1971 and February 1972, Sharon enjoyed considerable success. During this time, the entire Strip (apart from the Rafah area) was sealed off by a ring of security fences 53 miles in length, with few entrypoints. Today, their effects live on: there are only three points of entry to Gaza—Erez, Nahal Oz, and Rafah.
Perhaps the most dramatic and painful aspect of Sharon’s campaign was the widening of roads in the refugee camps to facilitate military access. Israel built nearly 200 miles of security roads and destroyed thousands of refugee dwellings as part of the widening process.’ In August 1971, for example, the Israeli army destroyed 7,729 rooms (approximately 2,000 houses) in three vola- tile camps, displacing 15,855 refugees: 7,217 from Jabalya, 4,836 from Shati, and 3,802 from Rafah.
- Page 105
Through 1993 Israel imposed a one-way system of tariffs and duties on the importation of goods through its borders; leaving Israel for Gaza, however, no tariffs or other regulations applied. Thus, for Israeli exports to Gaza, the Strip was treated as part of Israel; but for Gazan exports to Israel, the Strip was treated as a foreign entity subject to various “non-tariff barriers.” This placed Israel at a distinct advantage for trading and limited Gaza’s access to Israeli and foreign markets. Gazans had no recourse against such policies, being totally unable to protect themselves with tariffs or exchange rate controls. Thus, they had to pay more for highly protected Israeli products than they would if they had some control over their own economy. Such policies deprived the occupied territories of significant customs revenue, estimated at $118-$176 million in 1986.
- page 240
In a report released in May 2015, the World Bank revealed that as a result of Israel’s blockade and OPE, Gaza’s manufacturing sector shrank by as much as 60% over eight years while real per capita income is 31 percent lower than it was 20 years ago. The report also stated that the blockade alone is responsible for a 50% decrease in Gaza’s GDP since 2007. Furthermore, OPE (combined with the tunnel closure) exacerbated an already grave situation by reducing Gaza’s economy by an additional $460 million.
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Page 402
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The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy
Blockade, including Aid
Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.
After the ‘disengagement’ in 2007, this turned into a full blockade; where Israel has had control over the airspace, borders, and sea. Under the guise of ‘dual-use’ Israel has restricted food, allocating a minimum supply leading to over half of Gaza being food insecure; construction materials, medical supplies, and other basic necessities have also been restricted.
The blockade and Israel’s repeated military offensives have had a heavy toll on Gaza’s essential infrastructure and further debilitated its health system and economy, leaving the area in a state of perpetual humanitarian crisis. Indeed, Israel’s collective punishment of Gaza’s civilian population, the majority of whom are children, has created conditions inimical to human life due to shortages of housing, potable water and electricity, and lack of access to essential medicines and medical care, food, educational equipment and building materials.
- Amnesty International Report pg 26-27
Peace Process and Solution
Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.
Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution
How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution
‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe
Human Shields
Hamas:
Intentionally utilizing the presence of civilians or other protected persons to render certain areas immune from military attack is prohibited under international law. Amnesty International was not able to establish whether or not the fighters’ presence in the camps was intended to shield themselves from military attacks. However, under international humanitarian law, even if one party uses “human shields”, or is otherwise unlawfully endangering civilians, this does not absolve the opposing party from complying with its obligations to distinguish between military objectives and civilians or civilian objects, to refrain from carrying out indiscriminate or disproportionate attacks, and to take all feasible precautions to spare civilians and civilian objects.
Israel:
Additionally, there is extensive independent verification of Israel using Palestinians as Human Shields:
Deliberate Attacks on Civilians
Israel deliberately targets civilian areas. From in general with the Dahiya Doctrine to multiple systems deployed in Gaza to do so:
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The Dahiya Doctrine & Israel’s Use of Disproportionate Force
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‘A mass assassination factory’: Inside Israel’s calculated bombing of Gaza
Israel also targets Israeli Soldiers and Civilians to prevent them being leveraged as hostages, known as the Hannibal Directive. Which was also used on Oct 7th.
hey, what a nice surprise, how are you?
they survived? i have no snark left
The people in Gaza survived a lot better than I predicted ; but I think the mortality from all causes is huge, under reported and still minimized.
The ceasefire was the only positive thing going on during these past two months. This is fucked up!
as a moron, are you happy?
I see you are the kind of person to say “the best time to start learning is five years ago, so I won’t start now”
Do you think the ceasefire was a bad idea at the time?
i think the ceasefire was a good idea when the hostages were alive, 15 months ago, when Biden was president…not before "rump made sure no ceesefires would happen in defiance of the Logan act…now come back with something convincing
Oh so you’re just totally on board with the genocide and ethnic cleansing operation of 2 million people in Gaza now. Very cool and normal.
Oh so you’re just totally on board with the genocide and ethnic cleansing operation of 2 million people in Gaza now.
Like they weren’t on board then too.
is it good to be this extravagantly so stupid?
Does it feel good to talk shit from a Russian bunker? What are you even here for? Lol ur a funni guy.
i see the downvoters think "rumps handling of the situation is bettter
You’re whining about people who downvote genocide support.
Nixon, Iran, hostages…
…yet i was told that the biden genocide was somehow worse…cake and eat it shit…
What a strawman of an argument you’ve created. That was never an argument being made, it was that genocide wouldn’t be any worse because genocide is genocide.
And how is this at all different from any of the strikes Biden agreed on that resulted in mass deaths?
Oh and the cake you’re laughing about? Those are children’s lives. Get some perspective and stop reveling in misery.
because genocide is genocide.
That’s dumb. Killing more people is worse than killing fewer.
It’s more dumb to think killing everyone is any different to killing everyone.
Genocide brings about the death of the whole cultural group.
There is no little or big genocide, it is all genocide.
Ok, then by your definition there hasn’t BEEN any genocide because they’re not literally all dead yet, so why are you complaining at all,
This is the dumbest take in this thread so far.
That’s my fucking point, dumbass. It’s a stupid-ass way of thinking.
That was never an argument being made
Bullshit. It was absolutely an argument being made. “We kNoW BiDeN sUpPoRtS gEnOcIde; MaYbE tRuMp WiLl Be BeTtEr” (paraphrased) is very much the sort of dumbass rhetoric that was being tossed around and don’t you dare try to gaslight me otherwise!
I was told that protest voting would save Gaza, is Gaza saved? /s
Unsupporting the red and blue party is the correct thing to do and what will ultimately lead to a positive change. The duopoly party narrative is holding on a really thin line because everyone is unsatisfied on both sides, in europe third parties win plenty of times.
If you throw your trash out of the window that isn’t going to change world pollution but you don’t do that because we live in a society and everyone is supposed to do his part.
The way US elections work it’s mathematically impossible to have a viable 3rd party. We can’t just do it like Europe.
how is it mathematically impossible?
Most US elections, in particular the Presidential one, are first past the post and winner take all. There’s no coalitions or anything. Only one party can win. If the Democrats, for example, split into a Moderates and a Progressives party, the election landscape will go from this:
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Democrats ~50%
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Republicans ~50%
To this:
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Moderates ~30%
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Progressives ~20%
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Republicans ~50%
And Republicans are guaranteed a win. The Republicans don’t win 50% of the government, they get the whole government. Progressives and Moderates get nothing. The only possible way to defeat the Republicans is by combining the Progressives and Moderates into a single party.
- Democrats 20%
- Republicans 20%
- Third party 60%
Who wins in this scenario?
The third party. And if the Democrats and Republicans ever want to be viable again, they’ll have to join with each other or with the 3rd party, depending on which is closer ideologically. So we’re back to 2 parties.
And by the way, support for any 3rd parties in the US is currently at less than 5%, nowhere close to the >50‰ required to make this scenario plausible. It has happened before, though not in the last 150 years, usually with the total collapse of one of the two parties. Andrew Jackson personally caused the collapse of the existing parties by basically turning them into pro-Jackson and anti-Jackson parties. And then a few decades later the anti-Jackson party itself completely split over the question of slavery, and then the Civil War created the two parties we have today, Democrats and Republicans. The two parties almost completely swapped supporters and positions in the 1960s due to Nixon’s “Southern Strategy”, but the two ideological groups of voters have been the same since the mid-1800s even though they’ve changed names.
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