- cross-posted to:
- fuck_ai@lemmy.world
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As much as i hate AI generated art, this is a shit argument. You can run an AI on your phone (which you would have anyway) without a subscription. You can also doodle on your phone for free.
Yeah I feel it would be better if they they have shown the sheer cost of making these models and their upkeep instead.
It’s perfectly fine price to use in cancer treatment. But when they mention AI girlfriends I want to scream.
why are you assuming that someone who wants to make art would have a phone anyway? some people are poor
My friend, phones can be very cheap and accessable and most has one. Like one of the comments said below said, you can find a cheap phone for under 100 dollars.
keep in mind that 40% of the global population doesn’t own a smartphone.
that’s billions of people that you’re leaving out of your analysis which doesn’t sound very fair to them. you don’t understand poverty because you’re assuming your living conditions will be the same as theirs.
Do i have to consider every person alive whenever i make a comment? of course, people in poverty will have different ways of doing things and won’t be able to afford things you and I can. I thought this is a given, no?
you have to consider whether the points you make reflect the reality of billions of people on earth. i don’t know what’s so hard about it
Oh yeah, I forgot everyone is born with inmate talent, time and privilege.
“innate talent” is a pervasive idea that undercuts years of work and practice. art is HARD and most people just don’t find the doing part to be fulfilling.
everyone wants to make a masterpiece, but no one is born with some kinda artist-gene that gives them the ability to do so as if by magic. outside of savants at least, but that’s a whole other thing lmao
Yes, talent is oversold and used as an excuse to often HOWEVER there ARE differences in people’s skill level and rate of learning. Especially if learning disabilities are involved.
I really really wanna draw regularly. And i practice regularly have for years. Ive gotten much better than couple years ago me but overall my art still sucks (others confirm not just the usual artist hates own work) and it’s mainly because i have a learning disability that affects my spacial reasoning and ability to visualize shapes.
This may come as a surprise to some people but that makes drawing very difficult, i can’t get proportions correct and I struggle to find shapes. My best drawings are ones that i practically traced the initial outline to get the shapes. AI generated art absolutely makes getting an idea out of my head more accessible. And i can then trace the outline of the ai art and draw the rest myself.
I know people hate it but just blindly saying “anyone can draw just do it bro” is basically just as worthless of an argument that ignores reality
If you have people that talk like this around you as an artist I think you need to find different people to be around that is the real take away here.
Also, I have genuinely never in my 29 years of life heard people say anything like this. So this post can kind of fuck off.
wrong, you’re just too much of a coward to make shitty art and say it’s yours. it’s a hurdle that all of us had to get over
People can have opinions about AI or dislike it, the problem is that a lot of Anti-AI people don’t understand that facts must be based on and supported by reality. Something that isn’t the case with this argument considering that:
- There are open-source volunteer run services that are in fact free, and open-source (@db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com already mentioned the AIhorde in the other thread), and to add to that…
- There are low power models that can run on a standard GPU and cooling, if one has a gaming PC they can run it themselves for the price and energy usage of a gaming session.
You can dislike that people use AI software, but the things you say need to align with reality otherwise it’s lying and it costs you credibility. Strawman arguments and ad-homeim aren’t going to fix that or make you seem more right. At the end of the day people are entitled to their own opinions. However facts rarely care about people’s feelings, and in this case they don’t care about yours. I await the logical fallacies that people will spit out to try and combat this.
What does that phrase even mean? Asking something else to make something for you is not artistic, so it can’t be that. People who commission other humans to make things aren’t suddenly artists. If they literally just mean consumption of images, it’s not as if web searching for images has been difficult for the last couple decades at this point. If you don’t care about art at all and just want content, there are lifetimes of things you could look for readily available to indulge. Just start typing and away you go! Literally the only thing that has changed is that now you are accelerating dead internet theory and removing human interaction from what you consume. Of course, if you don’t care about art that is a moot point, since human self-expression and communication never meant anything to you in the first place.
At best, the phrase should be specialized, on demand consumption of niche content is more accessible, not art.
Artists understand that art is primarily about self-expression. Non-artists often instead think art is about producing nice pictures. When all nice pictures come with self-expression baked in, the two groups seem to be on the same page, but when a computer makes nice pictures that are completely devoid of self-expression, we find out they’re not on the same page at all.
I wholeheartedly agree with you, OOP is mocking the supposed barriers to art that AI users will bring up as an excuse to use AI.
If what you need is a constant stream of ever-changing imagery that you don’t glance at for more than a second or two before moving on, I’m sure AI is great for that. So are jangling keys and those slime ASMR videos. But if that’s what you want from viewing or making art, you are an alien to me.
I use it for illustrations of characters, items, and locations for my homebrew TTRPG campaign. That’s basically exactly what happens: party looks at it once, gets a general idea, and usually never looks at it again. Without AI, I just wouldn’t have the illustrations; I’m not commissioning art that’s going to get looked at once.
I wouldn’t call that “art”, in any real sense. They’re visual aids, not aesthetic masterpieces.
See also Spiderweb Software’s “Failing To Fail” talk: solo dev used the same assets in every game, and a constant complaint in the forums was that the graphics sucked. So once his sales were decent, he hired an artist to overhaul everything. The next game had the same complaints. He celebrated. Now he knew he could ignore that shit.
I can’t speak for your party, but if I were in your campaign, I would vastly prefer silly doodles over some disposable AI image.
My party very much enjoys the visual aids I provide. They are one part of a toolbox of resources that contribute to the immersive quality of my campaign.
Without AI, I just wouldn’t have the illustrations
Well, this situation has existed for a long time. You can buy extant asset packs, no commission necessary. They’re not too expensive, either. As you noted they are just visual aids. Actually I happen to have a supermassive amount laying around from random humble bundles over the years, that were pack-ins with other items I wanted
No judgement or anything, it’s just far from an “AI or nothing” situation
I’m very particular, and my setting is not thematically typical. AI gives me the power to have a decent degree of control over the content when it’s difficult, if not impossible, to find media that’s appropriate for a particular character or scene.
It sounds more like AI has disempowered you to exercise your creativity tbh
I draw when I want to draw, paint when I want to paint, narrate when I want to narrate. I design, print, and paint minis and settings, I make props and maps and documents. When it comes to semi-important limited-use side characters, sometimes 5 minutes describing them to an AI is sufficient effort for the demands of the task.
Yeah so to be clear, listing a bunch of pursuits where creativity may thrive doesn’t really illustrate your passion for the craft. It actually makes your interest in art sound passing and sterile. My point is not that you have been banned from picking up a paintbrush, but that your creative process has been damaged.
And look, what we actually already have from you is an example of that damaged creativity and resourcefulness; you are proclaiming that a problem that has been solved for decades is “impossible” without AI. You’re also flitting back and forth seamlessly between these images being “glanced at for one second, less than art” and “semi important, needing to serve a particular taste” depending on whatever you think serves your point more in the moment. It doesn’t sound like you had any thought or justification behind it before today. Just something you were doing because it’s easy and you felt the need to come defend it today when you saw the concept taking some heat.
Which is all fine. You’d be better off just owning it rather than trying to construct some goldilocks zone of importance where it’s justified
Uh, wow, don’t really know where to start there.
My craft is not painting. My craft is designing characters, locations, scenes, interactions, storylines, events, etc. The visual aids I use are accessories to the craft, not the craft itself. My craft is not damaged because I outsource a minute portion of it. Is the creative process “damaged” because a baker doesn’t make chocolate chips from scratch for their cookies?
There is no flitting back and forth, there is no contradiction in making a particular visual aid to assist in efficiently conveying information, and that depiction only being necessary for a few moments.
You could run it on your own PC instead
You could also draw in the sand with a stick or piss in the snow. I’m pretty sure the point is it doesn’t take advanced technology to make art.
Yeah it didn’t take computers or anything to make art. More about the artists than the method right?
Lol right, because there are no free AI art services and you need a dedicated iPhone to do AI art. OP forgot to add $400 for a leather upholstered “gaming chair”.
I’m sure those free services run on pure hopes and dreams and will do so forever.
I wish we could start arguing about the ethics of compensation for training data and requiring a concrete way to both protect opt-out, as well as compensate those who contribute, rather than argue about a product that absolutely does have a user base (as is continually proven). I don’t think there’s a win against the demand, but you can win the ethics battle and force better regulations.
GenAI advocates would rather get rid of IP altogether, though. They claim they’re all running ethical models already and it’s perfect, but they also want artists’ right to opt-out to not exist. Nevermind compensation, or the need for opt-in, we can’t even agree on the importance of consent.
I agree with the points about ethics and compensation, however.
If current models never changed again - none of what’s happening would “die.” We already have programs that can turn any image you provide into any image you describe, even if you provide solid noise.
What people do with that tool can be trivial… or it can take immense effort and thought. I don’t understand how an iterative process lasting days could be anything but art. Objecting to where the tools came from can’t change that.
Forgot the
Disability
Part
Society thinks everyone is able-bodied. Until a machine is made so I can draw directly with my mind, creating art is a pipe dream. I need something that doesn’t require any type of force, so no pencils, pens, mice, etc. I always associate the word “accessible” with disabled people so this meme was funny to me.
My friend, how did you make this comment without any type of force? is it a speech to text thing? If so, it might be possible for you to do art of some kind.
😮💨 Sorry but I am not looking for suggestions that I have to explain why I’m too disabled for it to work. Speech to text will not work.
I mean, pen plotters allow you to draw anything even if you can only type and they are definitely used to make some beautiful art. And if you can’t afford that, you can probably create algorithmic art on the device you are reading this comment from!
Thanks for the suggestion, but after looking into this it would not work out for my disabilities.
Removed by mod
I am going to try to say this as polite as possible. You should never compare people’s disabilities, especially in an attempt to invalidate them. No one has insulted disabled artists, however you are being offensive. I see you have been led astray by the second person, but this is just … off-putting. Yes there are people in wheelchairs who can work, and those who can’t. The first group does not make the second group lazy. Some disabled people will have certain activities they cannot do and no amount of individual practice/hard work/effort will change it. Being a member of a group does not exclude them from being offensive (women can be misogynists, etc.). The second person is literally using their status as a disabled person to put down other disabled people, I mean wtf.
What someone practiced can do with nothing, and what a newbie can do with nothing, drastically differ.
These dipshits are trying to communicate that this tech offers half-decent results. Immediately. For no effort. They could surely do better, themselves… if they spent an entire year trying. Opportunity be damned, most people just don’t want to. Developing a skill is a process that sucks. Vanishingly few people learn to paint portraits, and code games, and play piano. But any idiot can now use a program to do a half-assed job of all three.
Experienced artists, programmers, and musicians will recognize the flaws. They can declare the results useless slop. But it’s being generated by people who would do even worse without it.
Source (Mastodon)
Anyone can cook too, but I bet you’d rather have a generic regular meal than something burnt to a crisp.
That’s the vibe the napkin gives.
Anyone can cook too, but I bet you’d rather have a generic regular meal than something burnt to a crisp.
No, I would rather get a range of meals between bad and amazing that people put effort into making rather then the same canned mediocrity of a machine.
Go burn some eggs to a char, eat that, and say it’s better than a microwave frozen dinner.
Not everyone is excellent at everything. That’s why there’s specializations.
Some people like to draw, but many just like to see, much like how everyone eats but not necessarily everyone likes to cook. Not everyone likes making art.
I love cooking, and constantly make complex plates.
My wife? It’s extremely stressful for her, and if there was a machine that could just make decent dishes for her when I can’t cook, I’d rather her use that (and I bet she would too).
The other thing you’re confusing is hobby vs need/want.
If I need/want a basic generic wallpaper for some reason, I’m not going to be able to make it, nor do I want to learn to make it, or have time to make it - I already have other things to do / that I like to do instead, like coding or cooking or just plain old work. My wife is actually a talented artist, but I wouldn’t force her to make generic thing she has no interest in making either. For these cases, I spin up the local open source diffusion model (because I’m definitely not paying a company for it, let alone an AI one) and make it in seconds because it’s not something I need to be perfect or with soul etc. Just like we don’t all need to eat 5 star Michelin meals every day (or can).
Even she uses it to look at different styles or get ideas, or even to make something quickly, because it’s better for her than to spend hours making it. And since she actually studied art, she can actually use it better than I, because she knows all the technical art jargon for using in the prompt.
I get that you love art, but just to put you in perspective, you’re acting no different than a hardcore Christian trying to convert an atheist. Sometimes people are okay with a frozen microwave dinner.
The frozen food analogy is actually really good. I’m going to borrow it.
That’s nice.
Meanwhile, the average person only sees results. They do not seem to share your fundamental aversion to how a JPG was made. They didn’t experience whatever grand philosophical journey produced it. It doesn’t need to be artisanal grass-fed human Art.™ It either provokes an emotional response, or not.
If AI slop is a text in the absence of subtext, it is still a text. Comes with death-of-the-author built in. And people can still say something with works they did not make themselves… as you’re doing right now.
Meanwhile, the average person only sees results. They do not seem to share your fundamental aversion to how a JPG was made. They didn’t experience whatever grand philosophical journey produced it. It doesn’t need to be artisanal grass-fed human Art.™ It either provokes an emotional response, or not.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19368623.2024.2368040
And people can still say something with works they did not make themselves… as you’re doing right now.
Are you seriously suggesting that sharing something made by somebody else is the same as it being made by nobody at all?
I keep seeing this kind of argument, and I understand, but I disagree.
The comparison isn’t between using an ai service and doing it yourself, but rather between using an ai service and commissioning an actual artist. I can afford $20/mo for infinite mediocrity. I cannot afford $20/image (or more depending on the artist).
Of course, there is a flaw in my argument, in that I was assuming that the techbro was being honest. People aggressively pushing dalle or midjourney or whatever aren’t interested in “making art accessible”. They hate art and artists, and want to force creative types to be miserable doing jobs they hate. I have to remind myself that this is the kind of person that the comic is complaining about.
