No, it’s not actually this bad, but the fan remasters I have seen definitely suffer from the usual AI “upscaling” issues like smooth skin, weird text, etc. What is the best quality these shows can actually be found in?
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AI disclaimer: If it’s not obvious, the punchline at the bottom is an AI-generated image. I found it by browsing already-generated Trek-themed AI images. I believe this post fits the AI rule on this community, but I understand if not. My first idea for the punchline was to run a photo of the DS9 cast through a 2015-ish Deep Dream model or whatever (the kind that makes nonsense like this), but apparently that’s no longer a thing.
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Some clips of DS9 exist in at least 1080p because of a documentary that scanned in the film, so Paramount could definetely do it with some of the Oracle blood money.
Just wait until your eyes are too old to notice the difference and watch the original resolution.
Pro tip: enable the ‘sharpen’ filter in VLC. Works wonders for low-res video.
Where do I find this setting?
Turn on the audio/video adjustments window either in the control bar (called ‘extended settings’ at least in Linux) or the menu — the window like below. On the ‘essential’ tab of the video effects there is the setting. A very small sigma is enough, but I’m not at my main machine now so can’t say the exact value I use.
Iirc there should be a ‘save’ button, which makes the adjustments be used for all files opened in the future.
I don’t think my eyes will ever be too old to notice Bones clones have taken over the ship.
By that point I’ll be too old and senile to know what Star Trek is any more
I wonder if Paramount actually still has the 35mm negatives.
They have the film, they no longer have the CG or modeling data because it was lost or deleted after digitally mastering the DVDs at that resolution.
All of the computer generated effects would have to be recreated from scratch. And while that would be a good thing (some of the CG was pretty bad at any resolution), it’s an undertaking that Paramount doesn’t want to spend the time or money on.
DS9 (and probably voyager, but definitely DS9 per some documentaries) was filmed on 35mm and then transfered to D-2 tape at 480i. Shots that required CGI were transfered to D-1 tape (both store an uncompressed digital recording, but D-1 stores component video instead of composite with D-2.) CGI shots got transferred to separate D-1 tapes and sent to Paramount to be finalized and merged onto the lower-quality D-2 tapes. Nevermind that they had several very low resolution assets that would be used depending on visual fidelity needed (computers were slow and didn’t have a lot of memory or storage.) Here’s a cool interview with the Senior CG Supervisor for Voyager talking about the work they did making the assets. https://blog.trekcore.com/2013/07/voyagers-visual-effects-creating-the-cg-voyager-with-rob-bonchune/
Also also - the DS9 doc “What We Left Behind” has some non-CGI shots from DS9 properly restored and remastered. I remember the scene where they’re all walking to the holodeck in the casino heist episode was featured, I’m sure there were some others.
That was very educational, thank you.
Also, I would assume that this is how they did composite and CG on TNG as well. And since they kept the original 35mm film for TNG I want to believe the word that they also held onto the original reels for DS9 and VGR.
It pays to believe. They found the original version of Star Wars on film after Lucas swore it was lost forever.
I haven’t busted out the special feature on my blu-ray in a while but from what I remember, TNG used far fewer special effects. They were mostly practical (physical models on strings or poles, for example). One example of a complete replacement that stands out in my mind is the crytalline entity. They talked about how bad the model looked in HD so they were forced to try and recreate it, but just modelling it as it was looked pretty bad too so they added some extra spines. I can’t find the blu-ray specials but I did find a news segment interviewing the studio that did the actual production work. Really cool vid, I hadn’t seen it before. https://youtu.be/dPHP5izB8MU
Of course DS9 had to lose the special effects data, they saw B5 do it first.
They should do it all from scratch because I said and because reasons shut up paramount do it now
The problem I’ve heard is that DS9 and VOY were shot directly to tape, and not film. This means that there is not a high resolution source to rescan. Another problem is that apparently the studio did not maintain an as shot copy before sfx. So even if it was possible to start with a studio quality master tape for the best source possible, you don’t have a clean version to reapply effects to.
ENT was shot in HD with an updated workflow as Broadcast TV standards had evolved.
Not quite. The base footage was all 35mm; they were just transferred to tape when doing the editing and VFX shots.
It is very much possible to remaster DS9 at the very least - they did a few select scenes for the documentary “What We Left Behind”, complete with re-rendered CG effects, as the assets still existed on VFX artist’s computers.
Deep Space Nine and Voyager were definitely filmed using 30mm film. Most of Star Trek in the TNG era was (even a lot of Enterprise):
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Panavision
This included a lot of model shots. Deep Space Nine used only model shots until switching over to CG ships and CG-enhanced model shots during the Dominion War arc. Voyager was the first series to use CG models extensively throughout, but many stock shots of Voyager itself were done on film:
I think what you heard about tapes might be due to Paramount releasing these shows directly into syndication during a time when TV stations were switching over to digital equipment. They probably sent tapes to the various stations instead of actual reels of film.
That’s great to hear, and brings back hope that there is a chance. Like Dr Who, lost collections do exist if anything is missing. And fans will go to all sorts of lengths to recover source media if given the opportunity, just look at the animated show Reboot and what the teams are doing to rebuild the video equipment that was used in their processes.
I posted this in another comment but I think you’d enjoy it if you haven’t already read it. https://blog.trekcore.com/2013/07/voyagers-visual-effects-creating-the-cg-voyager-with-rob-bonchune/
Actually, a lot of the CG seems to have survived and is in the hands of VFX artists; they actually remastered a few select scenes and showed them in the documentary “What We Left Behind” and re-rendered the ship battle from the original assets.
The HD battle scenes were all done from scratch. Painstakingly recreating the cinematography of the original footage. Apart from the overly-saturated colors, there are minor differences.
Also, they recreated the Odyssey explosion fully in CG and that was originally digitally-composited model shots.
Never underestimate a fan’s attention to detail. Since the 1990s, there have been digital recreations of Star Trek ships that are almost indistinguishable from the official models and CG.
According to this, they used “the original 3D scene files”
Memory Alpha cites this as well as several other sources, showing the files were preserved and used at least in part in the documentary due to vigilant former effects workers.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/CGI#Remastering_projects.27_ramifications
And this doc relied a good bit on fan funding. Good luck getting Paramount to okay recreating all that by hand.
I dunno what all the fuss is about. GAN upscaling pretty good at this even before “AI” became a household term (and so cursed).
We had upscaling so good a decade ago, for old shows, that no one even notices it’s AI once the “fan cleanup” is published. I worked on one such project.
SOTA these days, as far as I know, is SeedVR2 + oldschool Vapoursynth pre/post processing, but plenty of projects are locally runnable: https://github.com/ByteDance-Seed/SeedVR
Obviously if you put “upscale this” into Sora or whatever, you are going to get lovecraftian horror back… which, to fair, I’d half expect Paramount to do just to get OpenAI into their earnings call.
If by “no one” you mean the same people who keep motion smoothing on because they don’t notice, yeah. Personally I don’t like fake information that balloons filesizes. The artifacts are obvious to me.
Basically: doing the actual work with tool help (including ai) vs. prompting “upscale this lol”
There was a guy remastering DS9 before LLMs became ubiquitous, he still trucking along?
Yup
awesome
Afaik they’re working on laser disk restoration now as well
O’Brien’s buffer clones
Teach a man to fish…
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/324466-tutorial-how-to-upscale-star-trek-deep-space-nine
Starting with 480p tho, you’re gonna have to be realistic with what you can end up with. What you’ve found and what you’re complaining about might be the best possible image quality already.
Don’t count out device level upscaling either. Having that on top of the AInl upscaler might help, or it might make your problems worse.
I’ve got a 4k TV that does a really good job of upscaling, so for me the Goldilocks zone is upscaling to 1080, then letting the TV upscale. Rather than trying to upscale to 4k and play that natively.
Good info.
There’s also a lot of tweaking that can be done. Things like changing the scheduler can have a huge difference on things like smooth skin, some schedulers focus on low frequency details (like large objects in the image) and less on high frequency details (like skin texture).
If you want studio quality upscaling while coming from a low res image, you’ll really want to have a person looking at every frame and tweaking settings and cleaning up manually with photoshop. This seems like the kind of thing some dedicated nerd will do eventually, assuming the IP owner doesn’t do it first.
I look at this shitty image and all I can think of is
“Ya tvoy sluga, Ya tvoy robotnik”
Kraftwerk reference?!
