Israel treats journalism as a crime,
How about Israel treats journalists like nazis treated Jews?
“Israel treats journalism as a crime” isn’t a condemnation, it’s a gross understatement. You don’t drop bombs on criminals and then bomb Red Cross workers trying to get them out of the rubble and shoot up an ambulance taking them to hospital. It’s hard to find words to describe how deeply evil the everyday actions of Israel are and people are constantly making it sound like some mild transgression.
Israel killing innocent civilians is as required as eating kosher food.
This will all continue every day until someone shoots back.
Hamas and Hezbollah have been shooting back. It’s not enough.
Add it to the pile
As if they fucking care about being condemned.
Israel must be dissolved. They will soon pivot to “oh, but we can just change the government! This particular government was evil, but we can replace them with the good guys and go back to supporting Israel”, do not let them trick you. This is a genocidal, fascistic ethnostate from the top down. The entire purpose of the project of Zionism has been one of ethnic cleansing from the very start. Israel has got to go, forever, to be a historical footnote for school kids to learn about and say “never again”.
The state need not cease to exist. The same could have been said about post-WWII Germany yet it still exists today. I guess it would take a similar level of engagement, involvement and actions to resolve the current situation (hopefully minus the mistakes made along the way at that time).
Germany was dissolved post-WWII, and reformed later. It’s also not a great example IMO, denazification in Germany was half-hearted and quickly abandoned, leaving many nazis in positions of power.
Well, the same kind of WAS said about post-WWII Germany. It was joint-colonised for half a century and ceased to exist as a single independent state until 1989, and even then, German reunification was pretty controversial
The more I read about Israel’s behavior, the more anti-zionist I become.
One thing however needs to be made clear however:
Anti-zionism is not antisemitism.
Don’t let the propaganda convince you otherwise.
There are plenty of jews who hate what Israel is doing and what it has become.
My line has been, and will always be:
The most antisemitic thing you can say is that Jew = Zionist.
It’s not racial to be a sociopathic genocidal monster bent on control and domination.
Indeed.
Claiming that criticism of Zionism is anti-Semitism is claiming that the things that Zionists do are typical Jewish things to do. In other words, that it’s a Jewish trait to:
- See themselves as inherently superior to all others not of their ethnicity
- Be extremelly racist, especially towards Muslims
- Think that those born in specific ethnicities are “vermin”
- Violently attack those of ethnities they see as “vermin” for no other reason than their ethnicity
- Steal from those of ethnities they see as “vermin”
- Calously murder civilians of ethnities they see as “vermin”, including purposelly murdering children
- Rape civilians of ethnities they see as “vermin”
- Starve to death civilians of ethnicities they see as “vermin”
- Commit Genocide
- Run child sex honeypots for the purpose of gathering kompromat
and more.
In summary in light of the acts openly commited by those Zionists who have the power to freely act according to their ideology and the support of other Zionists for those acts, calling criticism of Zionism anti-semitism is the same as saying that the Jewish People as a whole are basically modern day NAZIs with different ubermenschen and untermenschen than the original NAZIs.
In summary, conflating Zionistm with the Jewish People as a whole and thus implying that being a Jew is to think and act similarly to NAZIs is indeed
The most antisemitic thing you can say
I dont know think accusations of anti semitism are particularly importtant in light of everything else going on. Someones feelings got hurt? oh no, lets stop talking about the murder of journalists and aid workers and get right on that antisemitism thing, because thats somehow got to come before everything else.
Saying “Jew = Zionist” is like saying “German = Nazi”.
85% of Jewish people support the continued existence of Israel. So you’re less than 15% right about that, but you’re not completely wrong.
Jewish or Israelis?
I agree with you - conflating Jewish people with the state of Israel (or Zionism) is anti-semitic, although with that said, an overwhelming majority of Israeli Jews support the state and the genocide.
With that said, I’ve got a very minor bit of pushback
There are plenty of jews who hate what Israel is doing and what it has become.
What it has become kind of implies some recent change from a historical version of Israel which wasn’t genocidal. There were some very early idealistic views of Zionism in the 1940s, but it has pretty much always been a fascistic ethnostate. Most people just haven’t been aware until recently.
What it has become kind of implies some recent change from a historical version of Israel which wasn’t genocidal. There were some very early idealistic views of Zionism in the 1940s, but it has pretty much always been a fascistic ethnostate. Most people just haven’t been aware until recently.
That is a perfectly fair point, I used the word “become” as I wasn’t completely sure on how the behavior developed or if it had been part of Israel from the start.
I can also see the logic of the jewish perspective after the holocaust, as a people they were hunted and exterminated across Europe, and wanted a country of their own to feel safe and secure.
However, that doesn’t give them the right to hunt and exterminate another people, which is where Israel lost the plot.
Zionism actually predates the Holocaust by decades, though of course the aftermath of the Holocaust absolutely brought it to reality.
I understand the idealistic vision of Zionism, but the reality was obviously very different. Israel started existence by displacing people who were already living in a place. Colonial settlers pushing people out of their homes, violently, massacring them, poisoning wells and more - an act of ethnic cleansing known as the Nakba.
It was always a White Jewish Supremacist Colonialist project anchored on a late 19th century Western way of seeing the World (the same perspective as Europeans with “colonies” in Africa were they often forced the locals to work for them - a form of Slavery, not Chatel Slavery but still Slavery - or Canada’s Indian Residential Shools).
Whilst most of the West actually evolved away from that (even if recently some of that was reversed), Israel was a bubble of White Jewish Supremacy (more White than Jewish, as shown by how the Israeli Authorities treated Black Jews from Ethiopia) stuck in time and with whatever little evolution toward Humanist values they imported via the minority of immigrants they had from the West (the majority by a wide margin of immigrants to Israel came from Russia and the Middle East, not the West) being reversed by amongst other things a Press and Politial environment that purposelly fed “Fear of the Other” and extreme Racism disguised as righteous anger at “violent” Palestinians (at times even openly called “vermin”).
So yeah, not only was the Nakba a display of the dominant values in Israel (as is their overtly ethnically discriminatory Constitution), but since that time the country has not evolved away from that original perspective on other human beings and those racist late XIX century and early XX century views on human beings.
(Whilst, for example, Canada ended Indian Residential Shools and that is now looked back as a bad thing, Israel is right now commiting a Genocide in Gaza and Lebanon even more deadly than the Nakba and Israeli Jewish “settlers” are openly commiting a Pogrom on Palestinians in the West Bank with the support - sometimes activelly so - of the Israeli Police and Military)
Finally, sanctions against Israel !!!
How many condemnations are we at now? I lost count.
None of this matters. Nobody is doing a thing and you can’t bring back the dead. Fuck Israel.
Fuck Israel
Fuck Israel
First, murica needs to stop giving them carte blanche, see if they smell the coffee…if they don’t…let them fight their wars alone and see if being hated and feared is enough to stay safe…
We give them a pass because they bribe our politicians via campaign contributions through AIPAC.
Yeah, it certainly is a uniparty in that respect…
israel only serves at the leisure of the usa in the ME, vice versa, and then use politicians serves at thier behest in order to countinue the expansionism of israel in the ME.
Seriously. And the approval rate of netanyahu is like 90 percent there. Like shit man, what the fuck do you even do? None of this ends without world powers openly declaring cold war style measures at the very least. Trade embargo’s are great if its cuba, but heaven forbid you stop giving literal aid to a country doing a genocide. What the fuck.
Edit: I was wrong. No idea where I got that number from.
And the approval rate of netanyahu is like 90 percent there
What?!
https://www.opinionsandratings.com/israel-polls/general-stories/israel-election-opinion-polls
The current faction hasn’t had the votes in years…
That’s why Bibi keeps canceling elections, if there’s an election then his party loses, hes a normal citizen again, and his corruption case (that he’s clearly guilty) finally goes to trial…
You’re right to be upset, but I have no fucking clue where you’re getting your information from.
Can you source that 90% approval rating you’re spreading?
Edit:
To be clear, there’s a 99.9999% Bibi cancels the 2026 elections like he has every year since he cancelled the 2022 elections.
So, a dictator.
I don’t know if it was 90%, but I think he may be getting confused with the polled opinion of israelis support for action in gaza.
with the polled opinion of israelis support for action in gaza.
There’s still lots of confusion with those polls, because there’s an absolute insane amount of propaganda.
And for whatever reason, people still do t seem to even understand what propaganda means.
It’s not just something you’d read and think Israel is better, just like Bibi wants to conflate Judaism with Israel, he wants everyone outside Israel to think it’s a united front.
Bibi is 100% ok with me and you thinking he’s a genocidal maniac…
As long as we think every Israeli is too. Because then we stop talking about getting him out of power and in jail, and uninformed people start talking about treating all of Israel like theyre the problem and suddenly the united front has been “means tested” into fighting each other.
Fucking ignorance is bliss man, all this shit is as easily noticable to me as how a kid shouldn’t touch a hot stove
I had good luck in this thread yesterday so I’m optimistic that made sense. If not tho, I can try to answer from follow ups.
This is bigger than Israel, it’s one of the most common form of propaganda: divide your enemies.
Israeli citizens require a lot of deprogramming, and they are mostly saveable.
However, the bad news is that it may not be possible to do that without invading the country, since a majority of them are too far gone to accept deprogramming without serious coercion.
I look at the example of deprogramming efforts in West Germany after WW2. Denazifying efforts did exist there, despite modern western communist revisionism (not all wrong, btw, but not all correct either, check ALL sources my ML and tankie friends). It was quite difficult in many cases; even though a majority of the German population was just relieved that the war was over, they would have kept resisting if their country had survived. And there was a sizeable minority that only stopped being Nazis openly to avoid persecution.
Edit: and to be clear, I share your view that writing victims of propaganda off as enemies not deserving of leniency is monstrous. It is akin to what the fascists do. We must recognise the humanity in our enemies, while accepting that sometimes it is still necessary to kill them.
We must only kill the poor bastards if it is necessary to stop them murdering others, not just because they are “monsters” and it feels good.
Yeah after like some light googling I realize I was entirely wrong. It must have been on some specific issue that I was against and absolutely fucked up in my big dumb head. But you’re right. Thank you, some faith restored in my worldview now.
Yep, as long as the bombs and money keep flowing to them they do not care
The only condemnation that will be effective will have a megaton rating
I don’t condone mass murder nor genocide nor any other weapon of mass destruction, even if the target is a vile government.
Just like here in the US, there are many, many people who are in utter disgust with how the things are going yet have ZERO control or ability to change the government other than vote and speak up. I’m sure there are still some people there who fight back. My ex, a photojournalist living in East Jerusalem spent the last 25+ years doing exactly that - granted she’s Jordanian married to a Palestinian, but she lives inside Israel. Should she be targeted by a bomb?
I don’t think you know what the word “targeted” means
I don’t think you get what a megaton bomb is.
I do.
It would level a few city blocks, hurt people for around 12km.
Much better then to let a country perform a ‘slow nuke’, right?
Israel dropped 25 megatons of explosives on Palestine in the first month of the war. It dropped 36 megatons on Tehran in the first week of this war.
While we hum and haw about your ex and other people that you place value on, more of the people you don’t place value on die and suffer endlessly.
And no one you place value on will die.
Convenient that you would drop a bomb 65ish times more powerful than the Hiroshima nuclear bomb on them.
And no one you place value on will die.
I’ve lived through a war. People you place value on die regardless.
Convenient that you would drop a bomb 65ish times more powerful than the Hiroshima nuclear bomb on them.
If it would stop it? Sure.
Again, Israel has dropped around 8 “Hiroshima nuclear bombs” on Gaza alone. At some point you have to kick the dog biting you. The trolley problem is not a solved problem - this is why.
Or let’s wring our hands and worry about your ex who has “fought” in Israel to the effect of… watching it turn into a fascist nightmare state.
No one’s doing anything about it because you can’t have a conversation without people shutting down if you’re not 100% aligned with their point of view.
I do think I get what you’re insinuating. People equivocate their language when speaking about the State of Israel because disingenuous players will say, “THAT’S ANTISEMITIC” because they’re trying to trip you up and make you sound like you’re talking about Jewish people and not Israel.
At this point, however, I think that Israeli citizens who are turning a blind eye to the issues are just as guilty as Germans who did the same. Moreover, I would extend this indictment to fellow American citizens who aren’t doing anything.
Yes, but it’s both side. You get called antisematic for saying anything against Israeli policies in some places, but I find on Lemmy you get called hasbara and banned for saying anything even remotely critical of Palestinian actions. There can be no discourse to find any kind of reasonable path forward this way. So everyone moves further to their extremist sides thinking the other side is inhuman because they won’t listen. And we end up in a situation where both sides see the only solution as the complete destruction of the other.
Did you also make a frowni face and extend their index finger? It’s very important when you condemn these inhumane ugly behaviours
in order to warp the narrative in the future, gotta bomb/kill the people reporting on it, so you can distract the next group of rubes from calling for your heads.
Death to Israel. Zero right to exist.
That’s just fucking evil. Just pure irrational hatred.
A whole damn country full of psychopaths?
I mean, they invented a religion that places them as God’s chosen people, with a history of genocides and claiming regions backed up by that god. They wrote their stories as the victors and somehow still manage to sound like the bad guys.
Psychopathy was probably rife in the 12’tribes and I wouldn’t be surprised if it started with their dad, Jacob the maid fucker. Actually, probably his granddad, Abraham, the guy willing to kill his son to please god.
Either way, it’s been like this for centuries and don’t expect the country to suddenly change any time soon. The divine claim to the “land of milk and honey” has been their long-time casus belli for annihilating entire cities and civilisations + now with US protection!
Israel != Judaism
Israel is a British/American colonial project, not a religious thing
That’s a very ignorant take on history, attempting to disconnect modern day Israel from the Israelites of which also comes Judaism from Israel’s son, Judah and that tribe. Though, this has nothing to do with the religion specifically beyond its ideological influence of history.
You never thought as to why the modern state of Israel came to exist as it does? Restoration of 900 BC Israel? It was only later Israel would fall to the Assyrians. Then Judah to the Babylonians. The Canaanites at this point were way gone, Amon, Moab, etc., so the Israelites, as the tribes of Israel, were without homeland. No Israel, no Judah, nothing.
Then the Romans, then the English, blah, blah, blah. Suddenly it’s the 1940s…
The British administrative mandate of Palestine—as the British empire just did with little regions all over the world—is coming to an end so they put the proposal to the UN. II’s no Kingdom of Judah as well, where Jerusalem formerly was, but most of the landmass is central to the former Kingdom of Israel which was historically more prosperous and “the big one” anyway. Apart from this, it had nothing to do with America. The proposal itself had already been cooking for 30 years prior and the British were happy to execute it with UN agreeance. At times it was looking to go forward before WW2 was even a thing.
Your last statement is just entirely wrong, but it sounds catchy to anyone that’s never looked at the history.
I mean, they invented a religion that places them as God’s chosen people
Can you name a single religion whose creators didn’t?
I think most don’t, and even in Judaism it’s the more ethno-nationalist (i.e. Zionist) adherents that believe it. Christian nationalists and evangelicals do, but I don’t think Protestants or Catholics do. And outside of Abrahamic religions, like Hinduism, at most it’s kind of a “we’re right you’re wrong but idgaf”, unless again you’re getting into Hindu ethno-nationalism, but then the religion is just an excuse for facism and genocide, which brings us back around again.
A whole damn country full of psychopaths?
The current government has cancelled four elections in a row because literally anyone else would easily win…
And the period before Bibi was six years of political upheaval.
Blaming all of Israel for Bibi is like blaming all of America for trump.
Even if those countries were actually fair democracies that doesn’t mean everyone agrees with their government
On the other hand the responses of Israelis in opinion polls are not encouraging. From last July:
Personal response to the reports from Gaza: From examining the conduct of the state, we moved to a more personal question, asking: “To what extent are you personally troubled or not troubled by the reports of famine and suffering among the Palestinian population in Gaza?” A very large majority of Jewish respondents reported that they are not so troubled or not at all troubled personally by events in Gaza (79%), while the majority of Arabs said that they are very troubled or somewhat troubled (86%).
In the Jewish sample, we found no difference by gender (with 80% of women and 78% of men not troubled), while in the Arab sample we found that women are more troubled than men by the situation in Gaza (women, 92%; men, 80%).
Any time an opinion survey gives 4 options with no neutral answer and then lumps the responses into two categories…
A little alarm bell should go off in your head.
There’s also the last part of that section:
On this question as well, we found a much greater degree of concern on the Left for the suffering and hunger in Gaza than in the Center and on the Right.
And now we’re getting I to how Bibi’s repeated cancelation of elections and open immigration for hard right e tremists and virtually no one else to juice those numbers.
I couldn’t find a link to the poll, but it could be the vast majority of that 79% are effected by the standard psychological effects of how that survey was set up that anyone that stumbled past a grad level statistical analysis lecture in a drunken stupor would notice…
In fact, that set off so many of my alarm bells, I took two seconds to click the “about” section, see the guy running it also runs Home Depot, rembered how pro-Israel they are and even found you a source…
https://brusselsmorning.com/does-home-depot-back-israel-role-of-co-founder-bernie-marcus/77666/
You fell for propaganda…
They’re intentionally doing surveys that overstate Bibi’s support bro.
You think you’re hurting them, but you’re doing what Israel wants right now, you’re spreading their propaganda unintentionally…
Hey thanks for doing that critical investigation. Although I posted propaganda and that wasn’t smart of me, It’s good to know those numbers are likely a misrepresentation and Israelis may not be as thoroughly extreme as that report makes them look.
When I’m in a being evil competition, and my opponent is The State of Israel:
Every interview should start with “do you condemn Israel?”
