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wtf did they expect?
What Texas media and social pressure told them to. That’s why we shouldn’t let billionaires and liars run the media
That’s letting them off the hook.
Im not sure if you’re calling for harsher punishments to the billionaires that own mainstream media or if you’re arguing that there should be further consequences for people that fell for a sophisticated misinformation campaign who are already suffering disproportionately under this administration.
I think it’s disingenuous to ignore the heavy conservative leanings of a significant portion of Hispanic households as well as any who immigrated “the right way” and are pissed off by undocumented workers.
I’m not arguing for either, although taxing/eating the rich should always be on the table.
I’m saying that while in the macro sense disinformation has had a devastating effect on society, I’m not ready to let those “fooled” by it off the hook. It’s the 2020s, if you’re fooled by disinformation to this degree, you’ve let yourself be fooled.
It’s nice to have the privilege of time to research or a good education to base things off of, isn’t it? I have them, too. Poverty and oppression doesnt give over a quarter of Americans (which is also disproportionately represented in the south) that leeway.
At some point you have to allow them their agency. They are adults, and only one of us is treating them as such.
Do you think you’re immune to disinformation? Oh right I forgot it’s only the other side that is being lied too you’re right everything you say and think is correct.
If people didn’t have time to get better information, Netflix, YouTube, Facebook et al would be worthless. They are not.
People made choices. Those choices are biting then in the ass. Education is not free. However, lack of knowledge can be fixed with some small amount of effort.
It can be hard to get absolute truths in an age of misinformation, but there was plenty of information that was common knowledge about truno and his racism. He’d also already had a pretty awful first term, which ended in an insurrection.
If they were fooled, it was wilful ignorance. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t also hold the misinformation machine responsible, nor welcome them back into the fold of normalcy. If we, or they, don’t recognise that they bear responsibility also, it’s going to keep happening.
It’s a mistake to act as if blame is zero-sum. There’s plenty of blame to go around! Billionaires, the media, and the voters can all be responsible!
I don’t think you have to be particularly privileged to have the sliver of a soul necessary to be opposed to literally rounding up and mass deporting entire ethnicities. This isn’t exactly a nuanced issue, and I think it’s deeply condescending to imply that poor and uneducated people don’t have the basic moral decency to be opposed to the indiscriminate deportation of entire communities. Let’s be honest, these people thought they were white enough to be exempt. They thought they didn’t have to worry because they weren’t Haitian/Brown enough/etc.
You’re not immune to propaganda.
noy OP. but your argument is people don’t have agency.
on that we can agree, however, see Cipolla’s Laws on Stupidity 1, 3 and 5 in particular. You seem to have fallen for 4.
Hispanics all over lean conservative. It comes with high religiosity rates. Look at any conservative members of a minority group and they’ll probably be religious.
They expected deportations of only the “bad mexicans”, not understanding thst every mexican is bad to this admin.
solidarity is a lost virtue in some communities.
The destruction of the left:
“We’re pissed off at the current administration. Everybody’s pissed off down here in south Texas,” the construction executive said, noting that most Hispanics in the area are Catholic. “Remember, we’re conservative, we’re not far left. We’re in the middle, conservative Latinos in south Texas. It doesn’t make sense.”
Bear in mind they are talking about what was probably the most conservative Democrat to hold office since the 50s.
This guy deserves whatever MAGA gives him
What doesn’t make sense? Conservatives want a white country.
They expected a scenario that would work out well for themselves. They didn’t put any effort into thinking about whether or not any given scenario would work out well for themselves, but the Republican media assured them it would work out, so why would they doubt that?
I dunno, 200 years of American racism and past Republican sentiments towards Mexicans and Hispanics might have been a tip in the right direction.
God forbid anyone educate themselves before sticking a knife in a lightsocket.
Thinking isn’t how Trump supporters become Trump supporters. Fear is.
Their propaganda networks told them to be more concerned about trans people and Haitian immigrants than real important topics.
They didn’t consider he’d actually do what he said he would do on immigration because they were too busy cowering in fear over bullshit culture war garbage and hyper focusing on that.
Plus, he’d only go after the bad ones, right?
They did what daddy told them too and as mad as they are they will continue to vote red.
The Democrats to do the same. This was the year Democrats came up with yet another brilliant strategy to win over “moderate” Republicans by pivoting hard right on immigration, abandoning any talk of “building the wall is racist” in favor of “Trump doesn’t actually want to build the wall, we’re the ones who will actually do it.” Naturally, it didn’t do shit to win over anti-immigrant people who still saw them as weak on immigration compared to the Republicans, but it was quite effective at alienating immigrants and pro-immigration people.
Turns out, there’s a decent number of Hispanics with conservative inclinations who are willing to overlook them and vote Democrat, so long as they believe the Republicans are racist against them. Since the Democrats decided that criticizing anti-immigrant policies as racist was too alienating to racists, those conservative Hispanics lost the one reason they were willing to vote Democrat and voted based on culture war bullshit instead.
Why whould anybody who wants the original vote for a lesser copy?
I never really understood the political “strategy” of aping the opposition by offering an milder version of their policies.
It’s an incredibly stupid strategy, but there’s a couple factors that cause Dem leadership to keep trying it over and over.
First, and primarily, turning right tends to square better with what their corporate donors want.
They’re also stuck in the past, they think we’re still in the early 2000s where there was a broad, bipartisan consensus on interventionist foreign policy and taking away privacy rights and such. They think Trump is a bizarre, random fluke, and that there are countless moderate Republicans who still believe in that consensus. In reality, some didn’t ever believe in it, some just followed whatever they were told to believe, but a lot became disillusioned when that consensus failed miserably, with decades-long wars accomplishing nothing.
Part of the problem is that they stay in their bubbles, and that “moderate Republican” perspective is disproportionately represented in elite, Beltway circles. People like Dick Cheney are almost universally reviled outside of those circles, but the Dems aren’t even aware of it.
Then there’s this “conventional wisdom” that puts everyone’s political views on a one dimensional spectrum and concludes that the most moderate candidate will always win. Completely ignoring mobilization, enthusiasm, Trump’s multiple wins which fly in the face of the theory, the ability to change people’s political views and identities, the fact that politics is way more complex than one dimension (for example, the effect I mentioned before with Hispanic Trump voters).
That’s basically Clinton’s “Third Way” which Democrats view as the greatest political revelation to ever occur, the move that saved the party! They treat the 1992 election like it was a miraculous win against an unbeatable opponent, not Americans realizing Reagan was a fraud thanks to two depressions in 5 years. It has guided the party ever since, which is why Obama’s big healthcare plan was Heritage Foundation slop and Biden’s big win was giving the most valuable companies in the world a shitload of taxpayer money.
In general, humans don’t behave rationally. It’s time to stop pretending we do.
Probably not concentration camps
Oh, they did, they just figured they’d be for someone else
They expected to become rich. They was the sum total of the thought.
It was because of Biden’s promise to cut back the gas industry in the SW.
They expected him to overthrow the governments in Latin America so they could go back to being petite bourgeois landlords on the south side of the border.
And he has helped overthrow a bunch of Latin American governments. So a bunch of them still like him.
On the money🎯.
Even Mexicans are only salty they can’t have slaves they used to oppress.
Please libs, tell us how Mexico still treats the Zapatistas.
I mean, he told you what he was tryinna do
he even did it before!
honestly, it is strange when he tells the truth.
So they’re fucking stupid then? He’s been anti-immigrant since long before he was elected. What did they think was going to happen?
Deport the “bad ones.” Not realizing that bad is having a skin colour away from mayo.
Just a reminder. Male Latinos are literally the reason Trump is in office right now. Kamala had the black and white support to win, but make Latinos swung like 40 pts hard right.
Indeed and racism played a heavy role while voting.
White racism yeah. If we removed the right to vote from white people and only let hispanics, asians, and black people vote then Harris would have won by a large margin.
So we’re all in on not letting whites vote, right? https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/how-groups-voted-2024
There should be a basic test of “are these actual problems” for voting, i.e. do immigrants actually hurt the economy, and most white people(who voted) would fail that test.
That’s supposed to be the journalists work. But you have Fox News employees instead…
This is some bullshit, on several levels.
White people voted 42%Harris, 57%Trump.
Hispanics voted 51% Harris, 46% Trump.
https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/how-groups-voted-2024 Does that look like a hispanic voting problem or a white problem?
Secondly, It gets complicated fast and I dont think can be easily reduced to “swung hard right”. The “latino” vote is diverse and encompasses a lot of peoples: Mexico, central, south America, and Cuba (All pretty different folks with different political pressures, history, and biases) Immigration, economic opportunity, skepticism of the democratic party caring about them, anger about gaza and disapproval of Bidens justice policies broadly, and a general rejection of the economic status quo all factored in. By how much? Hard to get great polling data on that. But Biden and then Harris’s message was literally that “nothing will fundamentally change”, at a time when his approval rates were very low.
This whole comment thread is angry people shitting on Latinos as if they were the problem instead of white voters.
WHOMP
fucking
WHOMP
you were all warned and didn’t listen. You thought it was okay for him to subjugate “those illegals” because you thought you were the “good ones” so therefore it was okay to harm those groups.
Fuck you and enjoy not having a face
Met a Cuban last year who was a “Fuck your feelings” Trump supporter.
I think about him a lot whenever Trump threatens Cuba.
I remember a video about an immigration lawyer, who also immigrated from Mexico, who said Trump was only going to go after the criminals. Therefore business would be great for her. I really want to see a follow-up.
strange, they can’t seem to find that person anymore to conduct a follow-up with.
For her that would have worked out.
I think they missed the part where Trump isn’t about stopping illegal immigration, just immigration. Past and present. For brown people.
“It just seems now more than ever, if you’re brown, they’re gonna stop you,” said Mario Guerrero, a three-time Trump voter who leads the South Texas Builders Association. “And I know that sounds really racist, but it’s what we’re facing, man.”
The Supreme Court essentially signed off on a Trump immigration enforcement policy to assume speaking Spanish and looking brown is sufficient evidence to suspect someone is an illegal immigrant. It is about as openly racist as you can get.
I guess Mr. Guerrero doesn’t like the bigotry now that he’s on the receiving end of it?
They are idiots. My family is full of Latinos who pull the ladder from behind. They also think they could be on the same level as white people. Nope.
History is filled with people who were promised that we would pretend they were white if they just sold out everyone they cared about. Hasn’t actually paid off yet.
The Irish might be an exception there. See How the Irish became White by Noel Ignatiev.
If the current fascist project has enough legs I guarantee you they will get around to reversing that.
It’ll end as a circular firing squad of jawless, haggard, pasty-white men.
And Italians!
People forget it was only like a century ago when Irish and Italians weren’t white enough for the wasps.
Not even that long ago. In Rocky, Stallone gets called slurs
Depends where you’re at, my family doesn’t like the eye-towel-yans for some bizarre reason I’ve never been able to find out, but I guess that would be expecting racism to make sense.
They still remind us!
The exception to this is when the definition of whiteness had to be expanded to maintain a white majority.
At the end of the day, those sorts of things always let you know who you can’t trust.
similar, my family is all MAGA, they don’t even live in America, they aren’t Americans, but absolutely adore MAGA.
Due to abusive ex, I live in the states fighting for my life to get a greencard so I don’t lose my daughters. My family is still MAGA.
…Why are they MAGA if that’s not even relevant to them?
Not a criticism or anything, but I find that fascinating, is all.
Racism
Climbed the stairs.
Voted to have the stairs pulled up behind them.
Turned out they also voted to get kicked down from the platform themselves.
Frankly, such immigrant rightwingers are the only bunch that actually deserve the tender mercies of the likes of ICE.
(And for any knee-jerking “identity warriors” out there, never forget that immigrants are like everybody else and thus amongst them, plenty of people when they think they themselves are safe from it (“I’m alright Jack”) are just as nasty hearthless and selfish “conservative” and even fascist as the Republicans)
…in my experience, first-generation-citizen demographics tend to skew hardest against undocumented immigrants; not sure whether that’s because they put in the time, effort, + cost to secure their own citizenship and thus resent those who haven’t done so in kind, or because they emmigrated to expressly to get away from their native demographic who comprise undocumented immigrants…
Yeah, my experience is somewhere in between.
First/Second Gens are anti-immigration. They’re used to political corruption keeping them from advancing. They see the right as creators of business opportunity. There are plenty of ways to exploit cheap labor and they can move up the food chain pretty quickly compared to home.
They don’t care at all about others in their situation; they’ll step on whom they have to in the move up.
Honestly, it’s the same view as a lot of the poor whites.
to be fair how would they know? he only insulted Latinos every time he talked about them, called them rapists and murderers, and promised he would deport all of them… like are they supposed to be mind readers???
He repeatedly called immigrants (dogwhistle for Latinos) rapists.
i thought I’d already said that and realized it was corrected to “trailers and murderers”. how is trailer even remotely similar idk. anyway fixed my comment.
Didn’t intend to contradict you. More yes-anding.
i know i just realized my comment had a ridiculous typo
Wow, what a bunch of fucking idiots.
Los morons
If it’s a poll showing it and not a news story on a massive protest, they’re not really furious.
Would be pretty convenient for ICE if they did though, huh?
If they stopped voting Republican? Probably not.
That’s cool, but it was a month ago and not exactly “massive”. “Hundreds” of protesters out of the 7th most populous city in the country isn’t exactly proof of major demographical swings. In the 2020 census according to Wikipedia, more than 60% of the city’s 1.5 million residents was Hispanic, and that’s not counting the greater metro area. There’s also no demographical breakdown of the protesters—not that there necessarily should be, but without it, it’s hard to point to this as meaningful progress on the Hispanic voter front.
Voting is more important than a massive protest.
Voting doesn’t work on fascism
if !progressivepolitics@lemmy.world comprehended this😔
