On OpenStreetMap, there’s an emergency=defibrillator object. It can be tagged with information like opening hours (e.g. if it’s inside a location that’s only open certain hours), a description of the location (“at the front desk”), etc.
For example, on the Android/iOS app OsmAnd, you can select ‘Defibrillator’ as a point of interest (POI) Additionally, choosing ‘Healthcare’ POI type will show not just hospitals, clinics, etc., but also AED locations.
Other emergency devices, like emergency phones, are also mappable.
Why YSK: quick access to defibrillators can save lives and significantly improve quality-of-life outcomes. The more complete this data is, the more useful somebody can actually expect it to be in an emergency. Even if the data isn’t queried during the emergency, seeing it on the map could help users know where they are ahead of time.
You should also know that using them is not scary. You can’t do it wrong if you follow the spoken instructions. It will not shock anyone if it’s not needed.
Imidiately starting CPR and using an AED improves the survivability of a stopped heart manyfold.
If you need one you can just grab one from the nearest place. Don’t bother asking. Don’t be scared of doing something wrong. It’s better than doing nothing.
Caveat that it won’t shock anyone they don’t need to as long as that person isn’t conscious or moving…
The AED doesn’t shock people who are in asystole (flatline), contrary to popular myth. The point of shocking isn’t to start the heart, it’s “have you tried shutting it off and turning it back on again?” It shocks 2 rhythms, ventricular tachycardia (a type of very fast heart rate) and ventricular fibrillation (where the bottom part of your heart quivers but doesn’t pump). It’s possible to be alive and conscious in V tach, you can be pulseless and “dead” with V tach and you won’t have a pulse with V fib. So if you apply it to someone conscious, there’s a chance they could be in V tach and it will recognize that and shock them, killing them. It can also recognize movement as a shockable rhythm and deliver a shock improperly.
None of this should scare anyone from using an AED! If you have someone who isn’t conscious, isn’t breathing, and doesn’t have a pulse or you don’t know how to check for one, you can use an AED! Just don’t put one on someone who is awake and having chest pain “just in case” and if you need to move someone that has an AED applied, don’t do it while the AED says it is analyzing (you will know, it verbally says so and tells you to stop touching the patient!)
Go learn CPR! It is not hard, and you can save a life. Remember, if someone needs CPR you can’t screw it up! They can’t get any more dead, but you can make them better!
- not a CPR instructor, but I do work in EMS :)
Well written and well explained! I knew just by reading your first sentence that you have or are riding in the back of the bus. From an old and thankfully retired medic - Glove up, be safe, and have fun out there! And who knows, your next page might be the coolest trauma ever!
I will add one bit of data for people to think about. If you witness an arrest and you immediately start CPR, patient survival rates are around 35%. I know that doesn’t maybe sound all that good. But if you wait for me show up in my amp-a-lamps with the woo woos and flashy flashies, then patient survival rates drop to less than 9%. It’s all you bystanders that save more lives with CPR than we do.
And if you ever need to do CPR, you go all in and do it like you mean it!
Thank you! I hope you’re enjoying your retirement! I’m currently an Advanced EMT working my way through that unique hell that is paramedic school :)
You got this! A paramedic is just someone that’s really, really good at EMT-B skills with a few extra toys.
I’m CPR trained with many recerts over the years. AEDs do everything for you, you just have to apply the pads in the correct spot (every AED has a visual diagram) and press the big button. They’re intentionally designed to be easy to use now.
Also, get CPR certified. Takes an hour or two at most and you could save a life.
Rather have people sort of remember how to do CPR than be clueless!
The last AED I used in training even kept rythm and count of the CPR!
Taps you on the shoulder…! Hey hey buddy are you okay!!! No response… proceeds to CPR. No response…you! Get me the AED!!!..continues CPR…you! Call 911!!!.. continues CPR.
To anyone reading this, this is actually what you do in a situation where there are people around. Due to the bystander effect, you have to call out to specific people to do these things.
CPR only works if it’s consistent, and you can’t stop until EMTs arrive. After you command people to do these, you ask if anyone else is trained in CPR. Not knows. Trained. And then tell them to sit across from you so they can take over if you exhaust yourself. CPR is tough if you do it right, but you’re keeping someone from dying.
CPR only works if it’s consistent, and you can’t stop until EMTs arrive. After you command people to do these, you ask if anyone else is trained in CPR. Not knows. Trained.
Buuuut, don’t be afraid to do it wrong if nobody is available. Shitty halfbaked CPR is still better than just standing there doing nothing. And the people at the emergency services will absolutely talk you through improvising it.
Like I was told in the military: having a broken ribcage and being alive is better than being dewd with an intact ribcage.
Completely agreed! I’ve used a few in practice sessions and they are quite easy. The one thing to be aware of is that you do need to get the sticky electrodes in the right place. There is a simple diagram showing where they go. But you will need to get under their shirt and bra to place them, so make sure you’re not pulling down a strangers clothes for the wrong reasons.
But also, please rip off my shirt if it might save my life. I’d rather be immodest than dead.
Depends where you live. Pretty sure here you need a code to open it which you can get while calling for an ambulance and they direct you to the nearest one.
Can’t really speak for most places, but here in the Netherlands, you can sign up for a service/app that alerts nearby CPR-certified people when there’s a call. It will tell you to either go to the location, or grab an AED first and then go. If you need a code/key/whatever, that’s also listed.
I remember thinking of such a system for voluntary first aiders. We don’t have it here. Also for more than just CPR. Sometimes an ambulance is called out because someone fell and it takes hours if there are higher priority things. Someone else who lives nearby could potentially help in that case if they knew about it.
I know my first aid certificates are all long expired now but I haven’t really had a need to update them and it costs money which I no longer have anyone else willing to pay for. Got my last one on scheme for unemployed people over a decade ago. 99% of the scheme was bullshit but first aid was genuinely useful to be training people on.
I had done first aid before so for me it was more of a renewal but for many they had no experience at all. Did get to play with the CPR dummies which I hadn’t on previous first aid courses.
It’s a mix here. Those in private businesses tend to be open and easy to grab. The ones in a box on a street corner are code locked.
I suspect it makes sense. The slight delay would be fairly minimal. You are likely on the phone to emergency services already.
It’s quite effective at stopping people messing with them however. Unfortunately, it only takes a few idiots to ruin things. Both thieves and bored teenagers could take an interest in them, and render them useless. A simple code lock makes it clear it’s not to be touched without need.
I’ve not looked closely enough to see if any have a “break glass” type access system as well.
Wow, that sucks. A few minutes can be the difference between life and death during these events. I would be so fucking mad (and litigious) if my wife died because someone couldn’t get the AED open since they didn’t have some magic code.
Here, they’re programmed not to shock if they don’t detect a shockable heart rhythm, so there’s pretty low risk as long as the spoken instructions are listened and adhered to. They were even easier to use than I thought they would be when I took my first aid training.
Why is someone looking for an AED and not calling for an ambulance? Delayed ambulance response is more likely to result in death.
The person getting the AED and the person on the phone with emergency services might not be the same.
If I have to choose between going for an AED that is close by and I know the location of and calling for an ambulance, I’m going for the AED. If I can call the ambulance on the way, great, if not, I’ll call it after the AED is applied. Even better would be to dial emergency services on speaker while I’m doing CPR and send someone else for the AED.
Every minute your brain goes without oxygen your chances of survival goes down by 10%. CPR is your best chance of survival, and AED is your next best chance. An ambulance can do a lot of things, but even with EMS the best things they can do to improve survival rates are early defibrillation and good CPR, and even with great response times they’re probably several minutes out.
The ambulance has drugs that you and the AED don’t. Not every cardiac arrest is even shockable in the first place either.
Although even with all that, they will probably still die. Its just that having that stuff gives a small chance at survival.
I’m well aware of that. I do this for a living. But the AED and CPR still give a much better chance of survival than all the drugs in the world. Statistics don’t lie and there’s no bringing back someone whose brain has been deprived of oxygen for too long. I mean, you might bring them back to life, but they’ll be a vegetable in a nursing home for the rest of their life.
Organic Maps for Android and iOS shows defibrilators on map. Just search for “aed”.
@TheTechnician27@lemmy.world YSK that because of this post, I finally signed up a OSM account.
CoMaps makes it easy to add stuff.
PS: People in my area are apparently really good at mapping AED’s.
OSM mapping can be very fun, I started doing it more than half my life ago. :D Not just defibrillators, but lots of other things too!
How easy / intuitive is it to do on mobile (specifically iOS)? I’ve wanted to start for a while but the fear of making a mess and more work for volunteers has kept me from it so far.
one thing to bear in mind is that you don’t have to meet some standard, it’s perfectly okay to ONLY map picnic tables if that’s what you’re comfortable with. In fact adding lots of small things like that is really useful, i mean just look at google maps: It’s just a sea of POIs (Points of interest) on a super desaturated background where you can barely even see the roads…
Most people just use maps to find specific things.I’ve been using Every Door on iOS and I’m pretty happy with it! I mostly add what I am sure about, eg missing shops or mark stuff that’s permanently closed. It’s really fun!
I don’t use iOS, but have read that there are apps for it too. On Android there is something called StreetComplete that is specifically aimed at beginners.
Probably the easiest thing to do on mobile is to add or update nodes describing POIs. For example if a store or restaurant or post box or trash can is missing on the map, you can add that. You can use OsmAnd or, I think, also CoMaps for that.
According to its documentation, the app Go Map!! can pull from “quests” (small questions, like “are this store’s hours still up-to-date”) used by the beginner-friendly Android app StreetComplete.
IIRC it does this via an overlay. Keep in mind that Go Map!! is normally a fairly robust editor and kind of does this as a side hustle.
MapComplete has a specific theme for mapping them
Is that like a fork of StreetComplete (or the other way around)? My problem with street complete is that it decides priorities for you in terms of what info to ask you for. Like I dont care much about reporting road surfaces and lane lines, but I’d really like to contribute to mapping of hiking/biking trails, and things like water sources. I know you can do that kind of thing via web interfaces, but I like the way street complete makes it easy in an app.
FYI, you can change what quests appear on StreetComplete (and their priority) at
Settings>Quest selection and display order. As for contributing to hiking/biking trails and water sources, what you’re able to do is going to be pretty limited on StreetComplete. StreetComplete is there to fill in some data to existing objects.That said, if there’s a type of quest that would fit StreetComplete but isn’t on there yet, they welcome requests.
Edit: I see the first part was already addressed in another comment. ^_^
It’s a completely different program I think.
BTW, streetComplete has an option to choose what missions you want.
Didn’t realize that! I just unchecked some of the things I don’t care as much about. Guess I could have just slid them down the priority list.
Thanks for telling me. Better start mapping those places with defib units.
Are
Ooh, nice catch.
I will keep that in mind should I ever should I ever start up an independent ambulance service known for showing up just a bit too late
But seriously…
Hooray for getting access to this new and extremely important data set, but it really doesn’t help anyone unless you do something meaningful with it.
Hopefully, in 5 or 10 years, this aggregated data will reveal some meaningful discoveries about emergent care.
Edit: for all of you shitting yourselves, because i pointed out the truth that this data isn’t immediately useful, boo the fuck hoo
Grow the fuck up. Downvote me all you like, but it won’t change the truth.
Hey man, I was saved by ER with aed because I live in Europe. In the US it wouldn’t have been in time.
So you do you, I can only recommend to know where they are.
On the other hand, you won’t care anymore if it’s too late.
Also: I am/was healthy, had nothing wrong with the heart and am in good condition, so it might as well be anyone.
Dutch people have a ~23% chance of surviving cardiac arrest (out of hospital), thanks in part to well-documented AED coverage, thanks in part to systems like this. The rest the western world sits around 10%.
Good data like this is used for emergency services and civil emergency volunteers.
But knowing where an AED is when you need one is already useful, no? Why are you angry?
As someone who works in emergency services, I can assure you that it is worthwhile. I’ve commented on other threads how many of our 911 agencies allow and/or even encourage dispatchers to use OSM as a tool to facilitate geolocating a caller, providing directions to responders in the field, and improving situational awareness. And that all comes as a result of the high quality and rich data that’s being contributed to OSM.
Then prove it with hard data.
Your “feelings“ do not equate to hard data.
Prove it with proof and evidence. show me statistics that prove what you claim.
Because after every statistical review over the last hundred years of reviews of statistical data, your claims do not bare out.
you want me to believe your claims? PROVE IT!
Edit: tantrums, tears, and downvotes are not proof, lol
I can’t figure out if you are hating on OSM or AEDs, but either one seems like an odd hill to die on. Particularly since neither of them are 100 years old.
So you admit that you don’t have proof.
Downvote me all you like, but I’m still right
Proof of what? I didn’t make any claims, I just stated that I can’t figure out if you are being mad about AEDs, OSM, or something else.
Ok, well, I guess I did claim that neither OSM or AEDs are 100 years old. Both of which are easy to verify as the computer necessary for OSM didn’t exist in 1926, and the first AED wasn’t invented until the late 1970’s according to Wikipedia.
Past that, what the fuck are you talking about?
after every statistical review over the last hundred years of reviews of statistical data, your claims do not bare out.
Can you link one of many statistical reviews that you are mentioning?
Right, like I have to prove common sense?
Lmao
… you literally claimed there’s hundreds of years of statistical proof.
Is it proof or is it common sense?
You’re a terrible troll, can’t even write a sensical comment.
Fallacy fallacy.
When logic escapes you, you have no one to blame but yourself
I’ve got a phone app (PulsePoint Respond) that’s hooked in with local computer-aided dispatch systems so I’ll get alerts for nearby emergencies. They also have one that shows AEDs and other resources (e.g. narcan kits) from these registries. I’ve been the first trained person to arrive a few times and, though one was super obviously dead, it’s been a useful tool for getting the process started while EMS was on the way.
Congratulations to the one person on earth to whom this data is immediately useful. Really, all honors to you and all of your life-saving efforts. Cheers!
But to literally every other person on the planet (minus one or two), my previous statement stands. A single statistical anomaly does not invalidate what I said.
It’s a public app, anyone can install it. It does rely on local agencies being willing and able to connect it to their systems but that’s not a hard sell since the decision-makers tend to be receptive to the idea that more/faster help is better. https://www.mdpi.com/2077-0383/15/1/5 gets into some of the stats on incidents where it’s been activated if you’re interested.
Aaaaaand your tantrums and tears still are not proof
Holy shit dude, who hurt you?
What?
STFU, you’re a moronic twit. No proof needed.
Your name-calling tantrum isn’t very convincing
I think your kindergarten class is getting called back from recess
I told you to STFU. I guess you can’t read. No surprise.
People do do meaningful things with it. Just because you don’t doesn’t mean anything.
Go ahead and do meaningful things with it.
And in 20 years, when you figure out something meaningful with that data, you let us all know. Go on and publish that study. 👍
👋 change the world 👋
You’re a terrible troll.
So sorry to disappoint you, lol
