A new poll suggests that Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein is drawing more voters from former President Donald Trump than from Vice President Kamala Harris.
According to a Noble Predictive Insights survey released last week, Harris holds a narrow lead over Trump in a hypothetical three-way race. With Stein on the ballot, Harris’ lead expands, pointing to a potential spoiler effect similar to what many Democrats blamed Stein for doing to Hillary Clinton in the 2016 election.
For Trump, the emergence of Stein as a potential spoiler may be a critical factor in battleground states, where even a small shift in votes could determine the outcome. For Harris, Stein’s candidacy could paradoxically provide an unexpected advantage, drawing votes from Trump and narrowing his pathway to victory.
Libs will still blame leftists like blue maga wants them to.
Alright I’ll bite. I don’t understand this. The word liberal has two meanings: the classical and the colloquial. The latter is indistinguishable from leftist, so I assume you are using the classical form.
Classical liberals will still blame leftists, like … blue maga wants them to? Who exactly is blue maga? Jill Stein supporters?
Classical liberals also span the left-right spectrum right now, with many identifying as libertarian. I struggle to see what you are getting at regardless of who blue maga represents, but maybe there is a good point here.
Words can have different colloquial meanings. There is a really crass meaning of liberal that would identify Marx as a liberal, yes, and this is the most popular one in America, but there’s another colloquial meaning (more popular in other anglophone countries, but gaining traction in America) where liberals are basically centrists (in capitalist societies) who might pretend to be progressive but are ultimately moderates to their bones. This came from the proclivities of “Liberal” parties, along with centrists understandably claiming the name of whatever the ruling ideology is, and here it is of course liberalism.
Among leftist circles, “liberal” is sort of an unmarked term for the moderate definition and the Lockean definition both, like how “guys” can refer to both a group of males and a group of mixed gender, despite “gals” only referring specifically to a group of females (I’m using those terms because they apply to children also, not just men/women).
So the comment is saying, in translation: “Democrat aligned people will still blame socialists (etc.) like their Democrat ideological cult wants them to.” Does that make sense?
This is a sentence with words, but the arrangement makes no sense. You sure you didn’t generate that from ChatGPT?
? Do you disagree? Isn’t blaming leftists what blue maga is currently priming their voters for if/when they lose?
“I have no reading comprehension skills” isn’t the own you think it is.
I think it’s funny that someone with “Locke” in their name would seemingly not distinguish between liberals and leftists.
You realise that you’re not using the word liberal as Locke would either right?
That’s true, they are (and I guess I am, by extension) using it in a narrower sense than is represented in Locke, who encompasses both the red and blue team, but the Lockean sense would still distinguish between liberals and modern leftism.
This is a sentence with words, but the arrangement makes no sense. You sure you didn’t generate that from ChatGPT?
Worldnews@lemmy.world about to lose their minds with rage.
What’s with .ml obsession with stein anyhow? Is it the links to Putin? I don’t get it.
This has to be bait. You can’t possibly think people think that way, right? .ml people disagree with NATO-sphere liberals about a lot of things to do with Russia, but that’s not the same as being mindless Russian chauvinists.
Like, do you really think whatever meetings she had with Putin or whatever it is you blue rags gossip about would be a bigger factor than her opposing the genocide in Gaza, to say nothing of having better climate policies, better immigration policies, and so on?
“But she won’t win”
Obviously, but her shaking Putin’s hand won’t change that. His apparent trick of buying a miniscule number of highly-targeted Facebook ads isn’t gonna do much for her, so we need to accept that assumption either way.
I’m voting for PSL, not Greens, btw.
I love the assumption that .ml people have to take a purity test with political leaning check boxes and receive a manual of how to think while using the instance. Not, you know, just a larger instance that’s popular that anyone on the internet can make an account on. Also love how lemmy has a more progressive stance on calling out bigotry in all it’s forms, but somehow popularly encourages instance bashing with upvotes.
Little known fact. The .ml server is run out of an old Soviet bunker in Leningrad, powered entirely by burning copies of the Victims of Communism leaflets in a converted T-34.
Green party is the most progressive party that has access to 400+ electoral votes. Anyone that wants to participate in the farce would want to vote for them. And Dr Stein pisses off right wingers like no one else, which is a plus.
Why do Right wingers get pissed off at Stein? I do not get it. The main attack ads I have seen towards the Dr. come from the Democrats. Who try to sell her as a Spoiler candidate who is seemingly pro Putin – although no serious proof is given outside insinuations-- and also as proxy vote for Trump, because she takes away possible Dem votes.
Is it right wingers who dislike Trump?
Democrats are right wing.
Democrats will still blame Stein if they lose, and even though their explicit strategy is to pick off disaffected Republicans, they’ll never blame Chase Oliver. It’s just like in 2016, when Hillary used the exact same strategy, and they blamed Stein, even though Gary Johnson took home a much higher percentage of the vote in most swing states. They don’t care about spoiler candidates; they just want to punch left, especially when they need a scapegoat for a loss.
This. As long as they have a base big and dumb enough to buy any and every excuse to go further right (and blame progressives for it), they’ll keep doing it.
What’s wild to me is that they actually put out attack ads targeting the Green party, which tells me they’re believing their own propaganda.
Because democrats are deathly afraid of any mildly progressive party getting funding and being on the ballot nationwide, because then their entire blackmail scheme falls apart. You can’t go “you fucking better vote for us, or else” anymore.
The democratic party has been suing to take PSL and the Greens off ballots in multiple states (which also serves to cut into their budget, which is almost entirely small contributions). That’s the party trying to save democracy apparently.
Nobody hurts
likeHer word salads and accents are legendary. Could they have not picked someone else?
what’s better for the establishment than a candidate that functions as an empty suit?
I mean, you are right. She is a puppet. Could not risk losing all the big money Biden donators had already shelled. They want their cake too. Hence no Primary.
Watched her on a number of instances, it is all woke rhetoric and 'Vote for me, I am not Trump" messafing. Over and over.
Previous, better Candidates actually stood for something on their own. Rather than not much at all or just reminding you, constantly, of who they were not. Obama and Sanders could actually stand in a room and engage with it and with at least what sounded like their own opinions and rational ideas.
I’m struggling really hard to see which voter is on the fence between Trump and Stein. Wouldn’t it be more likely to be on the fence between Stein and Harris, or Stein and the couch?
Jill Stein is providing spite voters an option to not vote for Donald Trump.
Hillary took a lot of friendly fire in 2016 from the Bernie Bros who were not too happy.
It’s a fun thing to tell yourself, but more Sanders voters voted for Clinton in 2016 than Clinton voters voted for Obama in 2008.
I don’t know the exact math you are referring. but I do know that Obama won and Hillary lost.
Did Obama win over more right wing voters than Hillary left wing voters?
Obama was remarkably good at getting young voters out in record numbers at that time. My state went Democrat for the first (and last) time in 30-something years and when I looked at the county breakdown the newly turned blue counties were all counties with a major public university or multiple smaller universities.
I won’t believe a single poll until this election is over. There is so much incentive for misinformation out there it is unbearable. Just get out and vote.
Literally the maga line in 2020 lmfao. Like word for word.
Insanity. Anyone willing to switch to Stein should be at least as willing to switch to Harris. Someone get this goddamned grifter out of politics
People are allowed to stand for election without engaging in your idiotic 2 party system
You’re allowed to do whatever you want, I just want you to understand that you’re choosing to literally do nothing 🤷♂️ you’re not making a stand, you’re not sending a message, and you’re not enacting change. You’re voting for Donald Trump while making yourself feel like you’re fighting an ideological battle.
I’m not even fucking American 😂. I just believe that people have the right to stand and vote for a legitimate candidate.
There is no legitimate third-party candidate in a first past the post system.
Of course they are
Not being likely to win doesn’t make them illegitimate.
The UK is a FPTP system with 7.5 significant parties
The UK is a FPTP system with 7.5 significant parties
… I’m not sure how to break this to you, but the UK is a monarchy and has literally never elected their leader.
FPTP isn’t nearly as problematic in a system with distributed representation like Parliament, the Senate, or the House. It is massively problematic when electing a singular leader.
Seek help. And an education.
It is massively problematic when electing a singular leader.
No, it’s not. That’s how all of the elections you just listed work. That’s how first past the post works.
democracy enjoyers when people vote for candidates that better represent their positions: 😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡
Donald Trump is a threat to democracy 😭😭😭 now shut up and vote for the candidate, peasant. You’ll have a primary when you earn it.
I love how the ml community plays off how big a threat Trump is. History repeating itself.
Everyone knows that he’s a fascist. We also know Kamala and her cabinet is gonna be hardly better, so if you’re gonna vote, don’t waste it on a genocide enabler.
We already know all the talking points of “pushing her left”, we know y’all ain’t gonna do shit, because you didn’t do it with Biden and you certainly wouldn’t have done it with Obama, it’s always people who voted third party out there organizing while y’all wait for the next election to come around for you to pretend you’re doing something.
I’m sorry that I live in reality and like to focus on actual outcomes instead the little butterflies I get when I make empty idealistic speeches.
Getting Trump elected better represents your position? Then by all means - that’s the only thing your vote can actually accomplish in her bucket.
🥱
Voting third party under the US system doesn’t improve society so, like you, the meme kind of misses the point.
So don’t vote is your message. As a PSL voter I agree, but i want you to internalize what you’re saying.
He never once said that, you people are so dogmatic.
Neither Dems nor Republicans support rcv at the national level, so…
Voting
third party under the US systemin the imperial core* doesn’t improve societyFTFY. Organizing and direct action gets concessions
Democracy enjoyers understand that this version of democracy doesn’t care about third parties 🤷♂️ vote for the lesser evil and campaign locally for vote reform
Someone should invade the USA and bring democracy.
Democracy when theres only one choice is called something else.
You should try to enact change locally, then. You throwing your vote away doesn’t change what our system is, it just elects the candidate that will kill more people.
Hey would you look at that, greens and PSL also run local candidates and greens have more than 150 in office.
Anyway I’m not voting for genocide little buddy. It’s weird you’re trying to convince me to.
Anyway I’m not voting for genocide little buddy. It’s weird you’re trying to convince me to.
Keep telling yourself that, friend. A vote for Stein is a vote for a worse genocide. I’m sorry you prioritize your feelings over their lives.
There is no worse genocide, that’s not a thing, and I’ve already voted for Claudia. Stein is a fine choice for those that can’t vote for the best candidate though. No one, not one human with a brain and sense of humanity would vote for genocide, so two candidates can be struck off as choices.
doesn’t sound like very much of a democracy, does it?
It’s reality. Campaign for vote reform.
And Democrats will do that, right? They’ll remove corporate money and superpacs and the electrical college? Abolish first past the post?
No, or at least not at the federal level, that’s why I saying to campaign locally for vote reform.
Vote reform is needed because first past the post is a bad system. Third party candidates are pointless because of the first past the post system. You can acknowledge that the system is broken and work towards fixing it while still making a choice that has an actual effect.
You know that Trump is a worse option, and you know that voting for a leftist third party will make it easier for him to be elected. These are simple facts. You can either choose to use the information or ignore it and prioritize your feelings. Maybe you don’t have queer friends, or female friends, or minority friends and none of that matters to you 🤷♂️
I’m not voting for the “lesser evil” when the “lesser evil” commits a genocide. There is no dilemma when we are counting genocides. When do you start realising that both are serving the 1% interests? When does this end - if the dems commit 3 genocides and the republicans 4? If the dems commit 10 and the republicans 11? The red line is long crossed.
Don’t tell us what to do lmfao.
Congrats, your actions likely lead to even more Palestinian deaths. Yay, you “took a stand.” The extra dead will be so thankful.
It’s so funny that you think the democrats aren’t the genocidal maniacs that have unconditionally supported and armed Israel. It doesn’t get much worse than this, Israel has got literally everything it has asked for lmao. The problem is you thinking they are in any way holding back, but go off. As Joe said, no president has supported Israel as much as I did.
Tell us how not so evil the democrats, which are funded by the military industrial complex more than the republicans, are. Tell us how they work for our interests, not the oligarchs, please.
I’ve said this a million times, if the two candidates were Hitler and Hitler again, but he funded a little bit more the healthcare system who would you vote for? None is the answer. When the dilemma consists of ideologies and political/social trajectories that are 100% opposite to your ideal ones, the lesser evil doesn’t exist.
Don’t blame the dead on the people who have done more than the 99% for the cause, I can’t take you seriously that way. You can blame the oligarchs and the fascists/liberals who don’t care.
the democrats, which are funded by the military industrial complex more than the republicans
[citation needed]
Tell us how they work for our interests, not the oligarchs, please.
Yes, they’re all oligarchs. Stein included - her net worth is nearly 10x Harris’s and Walz’s combined, you fucking dolt. You’re not moving the needle, you’re just helping a worse candidate gain office.
I’ve said this a million times, if the two candidates were Hitler and Hitler again, but he funded a little bit more the healthcare system who would you vote for? None is the answer.
Yes, I would fucking vote for Healthcare Hitler. I don’t care that you feel bad while doing it, i care about what the potential outcomes are. You get hitler either way, why would you not make a choice that leads to a better future?
You’re so concerned with your own feelings that you’re actively trying to make everyone’s lives worse just so you don’t feel bad. The only positive that your vanity vote provides anyone is that your fragile feelings are protected.
sorry, I don’t vote for hitlers :/ if Harris wanted me to vote for her this election, she could’ve run on not being Hitler (as 101,000 uncommitted voters in Michigan, a very important swing state, asked her to), but she didn’t, so I won’t. I really hope her strategy of courting all 6 moderate republicans in the country at the expense of anyone to the left of the party works out, but if 2016 is anything to go off of, it won’t.
Whenever I’m in an ml community I love seeing what’s down voted and why. Always a trip…
Always make both parties worried: threaten to vote for a third party to keep the main party on its toes. But vote for the main party on the actual day. This isn’t a time for idealism.
I’ve also seen people vote third party for just as long and not a damn thing has changed either. In fact I used to be one of them.
Has it not? Political parties have copied popular policies from third parties in their subsequent elections many times.
But only once they see how many votes they lose on it they will start considering those policies.
Sure, if you’re willing to take your actions to the streets and have a large following behind you, then by all means strike while the fire is hot.
But if you’re not organised other than a vague internet presence, now is really not the time to fuck about.
Oh, you mean materially supporting protests, showing up to several daily for months, and marching in the street as often as possible? Glad to hear you support Jill Stein.
MLK commanded 44% popularity, Jill Stein is nowhere in that league.
To compare the marches and the impact of the two is the definition of insanity, and to ask others to lend support for her or any 3rd party now at such a critical time is literal madness.
Who in the fuck brought up MLK?
A threat that you refuse to make good on is the same as doing nothing. I have no interest in telling someone who to vote for, but your proposed strategy is ridiculous.
Right? If we have nukes, we should just use them! The threat itself does nothing…
(…think before you speak)
Appropriately apocalyptic for the liberal view on these elections, but the problem, also appropriate for the liberal view on these elections, is that you are taking the Other to be a complete dipshit.
If you’re in a situation that isn’t the literal end of the world, bluffing has a serious danger associated with it because it informs all circumstances subsequent to the bluff if it gets called. From that point on, people know that your threats are not to be taken seriously, and you have robbed yourself of whatever power you had. You become a “boy who cried wolf” with respect to the actions you will take.
Furthermore, this time in all situations, it’s somewhere between difficult and impossible to stake such a widespread plan of action on everyone at all times maintaining a lie. How do you agitate for such a thing? You can’t speak of it in the open. How do you vet candidates? Someone might be an asset (and liberals usually believe spaces both online and offline are crawling with assets for other states) or even just someone who thinks you plan is bullshit and will decide to talk about it afterwards. Basically, your plan works in the same realm of imagination where wars would stop if all of the soldiers on both sides just laid down their arms. That is to say, if you could just cast a spell and make people act that way, sure, but that’s not how politics works.
Lastly, it’s important to remember we are talking about threats, so “If we have nukes, we should just use them!” is a complete non sequitur. That’s not a threat, that’s just an attack. Incidentally, while there is a good argument to be made that if you get nuked, you should just take the L if you think your barrage might tip the scales into the world ending, such an idea definitionally does not work as the dominant ideology because at that point MAD does not protect your country anymore and there’s really no point in you having nukes when you’re just surrendering to death anyway. If you’re an individual operator of a nuclear silo or something and you refuse to participate in ending the world, good for you, but again that’s something that you can’t organize with because it’s a conspiracy of a similar style to what I outlined before, so you aren’t going to succeed in helping very much unless you’re on the vanguard and it might be a false positive that an enemy nuke was launched at all (this happened at least once with the USSR, during the Cuban Missile Crisis). In that extremely specific situation where mass action is impossible and only a tiny fraction of a fraction of the population ever gets close to being in the conditions where such an incident has even a slim possibility of occuring: Yes, there it works well.
Funny if true.
She can still go fuck herself.
Why? What’s the excuse this time? You guys are too comfortable supporting genocide perpetrators
‘What’s wrong with this foreign stooge spoiler candidate? I don’t know how elections or trolley problems work!’
Blocked.
So dnc candidates are not puppets, got it. Also the comment was made taking the survey findings for granted, so no spoiler candidates for you people, but you didn’t see that either.
I saw everything I needed when you moved right past the genocide part though, I don’t expect someone like you to understand regardless.
Keep downvoting, that’ll change how the Electoral College means fascists win by default, thanks in part to nobodies like this. Her chances of winning even a single state are zero point zero percent - but tell me you’re gonna do it anyway, because that triggers the libs! And lets a fascist ruin America and Gaza!
