thinks random offtopic mentions of all twitter users being bootlickers are destructive - yes
All I can read is “thinks it’s pointless to remind people that Twitter is a Nazi bar”
You can think it’s destructive all you want, but Twitter IS destructive, and the bootlickers who still frequent it are contributing to the destruction of our culture by fucking Nazis.
thinks it’s also useless virtue signaling and just a giant circlejerk - yes
Yet you’re virtue signalling in the opposite direction, effectively tacitly defending Twitter and it’s Nazi owner.
Pardon me if I shit on anyone with your opinion, because the last thing we need is a pro-twitter circle jerk. There are already enough Nazis in the Internet, we don’t need to accidentally pill more people because we want to cry about shit in the Internet.
I never liked this stupid idea.
If anti-Nazis start to hang out at a bar, does it become an anti-Nazi bar?
What about both Nazis & anti-Nazis: who wins?
It seems you privilege the presence of Nazis in deciding the kind of bar it is with no chance of anyone else showing up to decide the kind of bar they make it with their mere presence.
You privilege Nazis.
I don’t see anyone applying this logic to the wider web where we have Nazi sites: no one calls the web a Nazi bar.
Or the world for that matter.
Is your language a Nazi bar since some Nazis speak it?
Yet some people can regularly use x.com without ever running into Nazis just like the web or the world.
Nazi bar is classic bad company fallacy.
The most pernicious effect of this fallacy is it just surrenders entire platforms to Nazis & pretends retreating to ideological bubbles is morally virtuous.
By immaturely prioritizing comforting & unchallenging environments of social validation & self-righteousness maintained by silencing opposition over environments of unfettered public discourse that challenge us to develop intellectual depth & skill to actually debate serious disagreements, we erode critical thought, limit self-reflection & growth, and allow radicalization to propagate unchecked by exposure to deradicalizing influences & more intelligent perspectives.
We promote backslides into repressive extremism by being cowardly ninnies unwilling to counter words with reason & public opinion.
Have some conviction to stand up for your morality where it matters.
What is being communicated is that being a nazi is so inherently abhorrant that its unsafe to express support for nazism in decent places. A nazi may exist in such places but they do so quietly because they risk at minimum getting tossed out.
Places where its ok to be a nazi loudly end up attracting more because such places are rare and thus attract a disproportionate number of such folks.
These folks make decent folks not want to come. Now you have a Nazi bar.
From a broader social standpoint, people adjudge ideas I’m part based on how acceptable they seem to be by their peers.
Seeing nornal communication alongside nazism reenforces the perceived normalcy of these abhorrent ideas.
It’s not a nazi bar because there is the occasional nazi in it. It’s a nazi bar because it’s led by a nazi, applies nazi standards and moderation, and therefore attracts nazis.
That owner is 1 person.
This Nazi bar argument does nothing for the multitude of people left behind in an increasingly right-wing bubble because the “morally righteous” are too stuck-up or cowardly to make a stand with rational debate & deradicalizing influence where it’s needed.
If Nazi standards & moderation means less policing of hate speech, we don’t get that in the public square, either, yet the public is quite capable of denouncing & arguing against it there.
Actual Nazis in Nazi regalia have marched & spoken there.
Is the public square a Nazi bar?
Moderation simply isn’t needed for better voices to prevail.
Moreover, there are plenty of anti-Nazis there who stay to defend morality.
Much like the rest of the world, there is also much going on there that isn’t Nazi-related.
Nazi bar is just a rationalization for cowards to surrender & seek comfort, because when the immoral aren’t silenced, they aren’t willing to seriously challenge immorality where it matters.
The ‘stupid idea’ that people don’t want to be around Nazis? 🤔
If anti-Nazis start to hang out at a bar, does it become an anti-Nazi bar?
Muh both sides.
What about both Nazis & anti-Nazis: who wins? It seems you privilege the presence of Nazis in deciding the kind of bar it is with no chance of anyone else showing up to decide the kind of bar they make it with their mere presence. You privilege Nazis
Do I really have to explain to you why Nazis coming into a bar is different than anti-nazis coming into a bar to normal people? If so, I’ll have to go break out the big box of Crayola for you.
As to the rest, I’ve played this game before, and it’s not worth my time to argue with Nazis directly, especially when the platform is moderating against normal people. I’d rather see the platform user count fall and it fail vs giving them money and traffic. There are plenty of other social media sites out there, stop propping up the shitty ones.
Arguing is easy when you ignore everything you’re responding to.
people don’t want to be around Nazis? 🤔
Already answered with
Yet some people can regularly use x.com without ever running into Nazis just like the web or the world.
Maybe you need to stop speaking a Nazi bar language, abandon the Nazi bar web, or leave the Nazi bar world.
Everything is tainted.
This is just bad company fallacy mentioned before.
Do I really have to explain to you why Nazis coming into a bar is different than anti-nazis coming into a bar to normal people? If so, I’ll have to go break out the big box of Crayola for you.
You do that: it seems you need to sate your hunger for crayons.
Explain what you’re doing on the web or in the world.
I’d rather see the platform user count fall and it fail vs giving them money and traffic.
Musk is a hundred billionaire with fuck you money.
He bought the platform at a loss while it was only making losses.
It’s probably still making losses.
I doubt it’s making any money.
Using it while blocking ads (which I’ve never seen) might increase losses.
Nazis, anti-Nazis, & anyone else have as much right to claim a space as anything they like.
Calling some communication system a Nazi bar as soon as Nazis aren’t silenced is just a subjective judgement.
Others are on there, and it’s as much their bar, too.
It’s a bar.
All you’re defending is acting morally superior by judging the people who don’t cower off as going to a “Nazi bar” when really you’re not morally superior at all: you’re giving up by failing to stand by your convictions & letting the extremists increasingly sway public discourse on a popular platform.
It’s a load of shit.
This is actually a pretty good arguement. As for me virtue signaling I didn’t notice that, but even if that is true on some level, I don’t really think it’s hypocritical to remind people not to tell other people what to do, despite that being telling someone what to do.
Also some more refined thoughts about what I meant: I get that twitter is a cesspool, but everyone at least here knows that. I just thought that was a really weird topic to bring up on this post out of the blue. Yes everyone knows it’s run by the Nazi Man. It’s not very constructive to fixate on that in a community where everyone is already of that opinion, because it turns the conversation into a circlejerk. Yes obviously people will upvote someone calling twitter a collection of Nazi bootlickers on Lemmy and I’m tired of that. Because it is virtue signaling is what it is and everyone who upvotes it is also taking part in that and feeling good about it for some weird reason. It’s not something people should do, because that’s not the constructive part of criticizing Twitter or Elon, it’s just the echo chamber part of it where nothing of importance happens, instead people who are part of it will spend their time with reinforcing eachother’s already pretty well reinforced ideas.
Lemmy loves a comforting circle jerk socially validating their self-righteousness.
They also like rhetoric reminding us to punch Nazis, even though we know most of us are limp-wristed keyboard warriors just giving our justice boners sweet stimulation.
All I can read is “thinks it’s pointless to remind people that Twitter is a Nazi bar”
You can think it’s destructive all you want, but Twitter IS destructive, and the bootlickers who still frequent it are contributing to the destruction of our culture by fucking Nazis.
Yet you’re virtue signalling in the opposite direction, effectively tacitly defending Twitter and it’s Nazi owner.
Pardon me if I shit on anyone with your opinion, because the last thing we need is a pro-twitter circle jerk. There are already enough Nazis in the Internet, we don’t need to accidentally pill more people because we want to cry about shit in the Internet.
I never liked this stupid idea. If anti-Nazis start to hang out at a bar, does it become an anti-Nazi bar? What about both Nazis & anti-Nazis: who wins? It seems you privilege the presence of Nazis in deciding the kind of bar it is with no chance of anyone else showing up to decide the kind of bar they make it with their mere presence. You privilege Nazis.
I don’t see anyone applying this logic to the wider web where we have Nazi sites: no one calls the web a Nazi bar. Or the world for that matter. Is your language a Nazi bar since some Nazis speak it? Yet some people can regularly use x.com without ever running into Nazis just like the web or the world. Nazi bar is classic bad company fallacy.
The most pernicious effect of this fallacy is it just surrenders entire platforms to Nazis & pretends retreating to ideological bubbles is morally virtuous. By immaturely prioritizing comforting & unchallenging environments of social validation & self-righteousness maintained by silencing opposition over environments of unfettered public discourse that challenge us to develop intellectual depth & skill to actually debate serious disagreements, we erode critical thought, limit self-reflection & growth, and allow radicalization to propagate unchecked by exposure to deradicalizing influences & more intelligent perspectives. We promote backslides into repressive extremism by being cowardly ninnies unwilling to counter words with reason & public opinion. Have some conviction to stand up for your morality where it matters.
What is being communicated is that being a nazi is so inherently abhorrant that its unsafe to express support for nazism in decent places. A nazi may exist in such places but they do so quietly because they risk at minimum getting tossed out.
Places where its ok to be a nazi loudly end up attracting more because such places are rare and thus attract a disproportionate number of such folks.
These folks make decent folks not want to come. Now you have a Nazi bar.
From a broader social standpoint, people adjudge ideas I’m part based on how acceptable they seem to be by their peers.
Seeing nornal communication alongside nazism reenforces the perceived normalcy of these abhorrent ideas.
It’s not a nazi bar because there is the occasional nazi in it. It’s a nazi bar because it’s led by a nazi, applies nazi standards and moderation, and therefore attracts nazis.
That owner is 1 person. This Nazi bar argument does nothing for the multitude of people left behind in an increasingly right-wing bubble because the “morally righteous” are too stuck-up or cowardly to make a stand with rational debate & deradicalizing influence where it’s needed.
If Nazi standards & moderation means less policing of hate speech, we don’t get that in the public square, either, yet the public is quite capable of denouncing & arguing against it there. Actual Nazis in Nazi regalia have marched & spoken there. Is the public square a Nazi bar? Moderation simply isn’t needed for better voices to prevail.
Moreover, there are plenty of anti-Nazis there who stay to defend morality. Much like the rest of the world, there is also much going on there that isn’t Nazi-related. Nazi bar is just a rationalization for cowards to surrender & seek comfort, because when the immoral aren’t silenced, they aren’t willing to seriously challenge immorality where it matters.
The ‘stupid idea’ that people don’t want to be around Nazis? 🤔
Muh both sides.
Do I really have to explain to you why Nazis coming into a bar is different than anti-nazis coming into a bar to normal people? If so, I’ll have to go break out the big box of Crayola for you.
As to the rest, I’ve played this game before, and it’s not worth my time to argue with Nazis directly, especially when the platform is moderating against normal people. I’d rather see the platform user count fall and it fail vs giving them money and traffic. There are plenty of other social media sites out there, stop propping up the shitty ones.
Arguing is easy when you ignore everything you’re responding to.
Already answered with
Maybe you need to stop speaking a Nazi bar language, abandon the Nazi bar web, or leave the Nazi bar world. Everything is tainted. This is just bad company fallacy mentioned before.
You do that: it seems you need to sate your hunger for crayons. Explain what you’re doing on the web or in the world.
Musk is a hundred billionaire with fuck you money. He bought the platform at a loss while it was only making losses. It’s probably still making losses. I doubt it’s making any money. Using it while blocking ads (which I’ve never seen) might increase losses.
Nazis, anti-Nazis, & anyone else have as much right to claim a space as anything they like. Calling some communication system a Nazi bar as soon as Nazis aren’t silenced is just a subjective judgement. Others are on there, and it’s as much their bar, too. It’s a bar.
All you’re defending is acting morally superior by judging the people who don’t cower off as going to a “Nazi bar” when really you’re not morally superior at all: you’re giving up by failing to stand by your convictions & letting the extremists increasingly sway public discourse on a popular platform. It’s a load of shit.
This is actually a pretty good arguement. As for me virtue signaling I didn’t notice that, but even if that is true on some level, I don’t really think it’s hypocritical to remind people not to tell other people what to do, despite that being telling someone what to do.
Also some more refined thoughts about what I meant: I get that twitter is a cesspool, but everyone at least here knows that. I just thought that was a really weird topic to bring up on this post out of the blue. Yes everyone knows it’s run by the Nazi Man. It’s not very constructive to fixate on that in a community where everyone is already of that opinion, because it turns the conversation into a circlejerk. Yes obviously people will upvote someone calling twitter a collection of Nazi bootlickers on Lemmy and I’m tired of that. Because it is virtue signaling is what it is and everyone who upvotes it is also taking part in that and feeling good about it for some weird reason. It’s not something people should do, because that’s not the constructive part of criticizing Twitter or Elon, it’s just the echo chamber part of it where nothing of importance happens, instead people who are part of it will spend their time with reinforcing eachother’s already pretty well reinforced ideas.
Lemmy loves a comforting circle jerk socially validating their self-righteousness. They also like rhetoric reminding us to punch Nazis, even though we know most of us are limp-wristed keyboard warriors just giving our justice boners sweet stimulation.
What is it about people disliking nazis that upsets you?