To help tell the front from the back in the dark.
Penelope, you are buying underwear with bows. There are plenty without. I assume this is your underwear fashion choice.
I want mens underwear with these little bows. I want to feel pretty too but my junk needs room
They make those, you just haven’t looked hard enough.
It’s the tiny handle on the syrup bottleIs it still skuomorphism if nobody knows what it’s for or what it represents?
Personally, I wouldn’t buy that maple syrup – not because of the presence / absence of the handle, but because it’s a screw-on top. I get Maple Syrup with a flip-top closure, so that dried syrup doesn’t interfere with opening and closing the bottle.
I always wondered if those are structurally sound enough to be slung from a small rope.
I’m also not willing to risk my delicious maple syrup to find out.
You could probably use it to hang it from a small hook. Like if you wanted a dedicated syrup hook in your bedroom
Water and syrup have about the same weight, give it a shot with an empty bottle.
If it’s filled with water, it wouldn’t be empty
/s
A handle is a handle. If it’s there, I’m going to use it. I’ll just complain about it after.
Looking broadly at clothes from around the world, there does seem to be a tendency for masculine clothes to be minimalistic, using straight lines and minimal decorative flair, and feminine clothes to have more decorative elements ranging from simple pleating to expansive ruffles and lace, more visible patterns, and more curves, whether as part of the garment or as part of the body shown through the garment.
Men’s clothes used to be fancier, especially in Europe, until Beau Brummell started a minimalist trend. We still base men’s suits on the basic outfit he wore, including the colors.
Look how minimal this looks
Goes back to human nature. Like birds where one sex will be decorating the nest while the other due different duties. Human the same. Unless you are a pigeon.
Ah yes, human, the famous birds, all of them.
Well, according to Diogenes…
How do bows infantilize people?
Because that person thinks bows are childish? Or something?
Ask why there are bows on panties but not bows on boxers or briefs.
Gosh, I would love boxers with a lil bow on the front
Have you ever looked at men’s footwear? Specifically the laced variety?
Because bows are seen as feminine? Since when is femininity infantilizing?
Bows aren’t seen as feminine. Otherwise it would be an insult to give a man a present wrapped in a bow. They’re seen as childish. Men wouldn’t take it as a challenge to their manhood if you gave them a present wrapped in a bow. If your work uniform included a big shiny bow on the front, you would feel pretty damn infantilized.
Or in this specific case, the bow is meant to say “this body is a gift, an object, a thing to be conquered or obtained.” Literal objectification. And this particular objectification only applies to women’s bodies, not men’s. Men get to receive the gift of a woman’s body, but women don’t get to receive the gift of a man’s body. Men have agency, women don’t. Classic infantilization, the stripping of agency.
Or, for a more specific example. Grown women don’t tend to wear a lot of bows in their hair. That’s something for young girls primarily. Same reason you don’t see 40 year old women dressing up as fairy tale princesses. Fairy tales princesses aren’t a feminine thing, they’re a children’s thing.
Are you saying my bow tie is childish?!?!?
How dare you
Bows are for everyone but I feel more people see them as slightly feminine depending on the context. Kids have bows too I guess but mostly just girls so again feminine.
You realize women are choosing to wear bows on their underwear, yeah? Like, they can buy underwear sans bows. Virtue signalling prick
I hope you come to terms with your inner demons.
I hope you come to terms with your nihilism.
I don’t think it matters if one comes to term with nihilism
Thank you for understanding nihilism. I was about to write the same thing as you.
What about a bow tie
Thank you for making my point for me. Bow ties are famously primarily worn by children.
… What are you talking about? Bow ties are a notable example of mens formal wear.
They’re commonly seen at weddings and the most formal of events like major award events.
Just look at those infantalized… Nobel prize winners, monarchs and national leaders?
Oh, and don’t forget that formal naval military attire involves a neckerchief tied quite prominently in a bow much like the underwear.
You put bowties on children because they also snag less, and it’s cute when kids wear formal attire.
I literally think of grown men when I think of a bow tie, not a child.
You might be projecting some weird shit.
When I think of a bowtie, the first thing that comes to mind is a barbershop quartet, not a kid
ive never seen a child wear a bow tie yet ive seen countless adults wear a bow tie. hope this helps!
Isn’t the bow in a present there for celebrative and decorative purposes?
The necktie originates from a bow kind of. Some men even wear bows with a suit, especially with a dress suit. It’s part of many butlers’ uniform.
Never have a thought of them as childish, but if that’s what you see then so be it.
Exactly. Bows on presents are meant to be festive and frivolous. You see them at Christmas, a holiday centered around children.
How many adults do you see with bow ties? Want an example? Tucker Carlson started his career wearing a bow tie. His whole shtick was he was a young edgelord conservative. The bow tie went with his youthful look.
Your logic is absolutely ridiculous lmao
Thanks for letting us have a glimpse of your thoughts. If you do requests, I would like to see you do jewellery next, which are decorative and celebrative and centered around some holidays as well.
Look at these young boys, nary a wrinkle nor a gray hair between them
I think you’ve really misunderstood bow ties.
but women don’t get to receive the gift of a man’s body
dunno, the wife unties the draw string on my boxers (that I usually tie in a bow because its easier to undo) and goes to town…
Juuuuust a bit outside.
I’ve lurked on here for a couple of years and made an account yesterday just to reply to your comment and say I love the reference and I read it in the announcers voice ha ha
Maybe to chuds.
lemmy is very misogynistic and dont like thinking critically about the patriarchal influences on everyday life.
i think this is a great write up.
Lemmy is very mysoginistic, in that a lot of you don’t seem to understand that women have agency and can make decisions for themselves. Like it’s somehow men’s fault if a woman prefers underwear that she thinks look cute
Woman intentionally buys underwear she thinks is cute, that likely she will be the only one to see it and know what it looks like.
Men: That’s infanticizing!
Because typically girls like bows and men don’t?
Because typically girls like bows and men don’t?
You’re giving yourself away. Note you didn’t compare women to men. You compared GIRLS to men. You yourself deep down know that this is infantilizing. You’re just not willing to admit it.
No. Young girls like bows. Grown women rarely wear bows, pig tails, and other such things. You’re confusing girls with women.
You’re trying WAY too hard. Im going to just believe you’re trolling because it’s so ridiculous.
I see grown WoMeN with bows in their hair or in their dresses all the fucking time. Sure it’s less often than children, but it’s not some weird anomaly. Get some therapy and stop projecting your issues onto men.
Someone needs to seize this guys hard drives.
My 40+yo coworker who is probably more manly than you (don’t feel bad, me too lol she’s a beast) loves cute shit and bows, has stuffed animals on her desk, wore pigtails (I think, dual braids anyway) the other week, and meanwhile is better with tools and shit than most guys I know. You tell her bows infantilize her you might find yourself in a fight lol. Maybe we should just let people like what they like and not try and go all Freud on everyone.
Because flies offer similar decorative properties.
I always just assumed it was to quickly identify which way is front Yes theres a stamp to represent the back, but a bow is even quicker to identify. I also figured it was decorative as well.
As for me, im sorry but yes i have always found it as a turn on. No idea why, just who I am and what I like.
personally, I always know which side is the front and never notice the bow because I notice the penis first.
It’s called a skeuomorph, a vestigial design element that used to be functional but has evolved to be purely decorative. It’s why maple syrup still comes in bottles with those weird little round handles.
My favorite example is the QWERTY keyboard being based on typewriters. Just something whimsical about how no matter how much technology advances we will still be using our cyber-typewriters.
Well also it’s just a good way of organizing keys for the english language at least, while it may have meant more for type writers where mistakes were permanent it’s still good for keeping pace with modern computers and phones.
Qwerty was introduced to slow down typing speed so that skilled typists wouldn’t damage the typewriters.
I don’t think you can argue it’s good design for keeping pace with computers and phones when it literally slows people down compared to layouts like Dvorak.
This! It was made specifically to limit functionality to match mechanical constraints. Nothing about QWERTY is inherently ‘good’ for English.
Additionally QWERTZ and AZERTY were adapted from QWERTY to perform the same role for other languages - to reduce jamming by slowing down common letter combinations or separating their input across two hands
The question remains. All underwear had that.
Hypothesis: menswear tends to be more utilitarian, womenswear tends to be more fashionable. A bow would make my cargo pants get caught on shit all the time at work. My girlfriend isn’t moving heavy shit all day, and can afford to wear more decorative stuff
There’s interesting! However, as English is not my mother tongue, I have no idea how to pronounce it even with the phonetics 🤣
English is my mother tongue, and I’m also unclear about how to pronounce it. Skew-oh-morf?
Fun fact: English is one of the only languages where spelling bees are a thing.
I always wonder how spelling bee scenes in shows get translated when dubbed into other languages. Maybe they’re turned into some other kind of academic competition?
Anyone have any insight?
It’s just still a spelling bee. They’ll find some fitting term to call it and that’s that. Everyone knows the show is set in a different country anyways. The concept is intuitive enough, even if it’d be very easy in most languages.
It should be pronounced skew-O- morph, Q after an S usually makes a K sound. Pretty sure it’s a hold over from Latin, for example Populesque.
pussy is indeed a gift, to be given willingly, to specific people, when one wants to give it
not to be taken at the taker’s whim
How the fuck is this relevant to this thread?
because im pointing out that the claim that “pussy is a gift” is true (when interpreted the way i explained)
Unless of course the haver is into that.
yes, of course :3
For the second comment, if the bow is there to please men and infantilize women, why don’t you just buy a pair that doesn’t have the bow? I’m all for calling out sexism and over sexualization, but i think this is just a case of capitalism being capitalism. Panties with bows probably just sell better to a significant demographic of women.
Your only mistake is taking that ragebait comment seriously in the first place. Bows have nothing to do with children. They are used all over the place as a decorative element.
I dunno’, I’ve heard much wilder takes said in complete earnest.
There are some genuinely jaded and dumb people in the world who will say all sorts of shit and mean it.
Some of those people appear to be in this thread right now lmao
How many men’s steel toe work boots have you seen sold with a big happy bow on them?
All of them, once they’re tied.
You’re right. Women’s workboots demonstrate this unfairness. Men deserve bows on their panties too.
I just want a decent pair of boxer briefs with little red hearts on them
You’re right. Women’s workboots demonstrate this unfairness. Men deserve bows on their panties too.
Anatole France is spinning in his grave.
The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.
Are you arguing about sexism in clothing design by seemingly implying that women don’t wear work boots?
Possibly not the best way to argue about the sexism endemic in clothing design.
They aren’t a common decorative element in mens things (unless you count like, bow ties), and work boots generally don’t have decorative elements at all. But they’re still a pretty common decorative element, outside of use for children.
Ok. So bows are seen on women’s things and childrens’s things. And sexism almost always involves stripping agency and the infantilization of women. And you are unable to make this connection…why exactly?
I mean, I don’t see bows on young boys things. I see them on women’s things and young girl’s things. The connection is to femininity, not childhood.
If I’m not mistaken, bows used to be a lot more common on (rich) men’s clothing. But, similar to the high heel, has mostly fallen out of fashion in masculine fashion.
At least in my social environment, bows are not a kids thing. Feminine, sure.
Uh…no it isn’t, are you serious? His other is thinking she does buy those, and assuming that any of them do. That’s probably a product image.
If you want to get into it, you go to body hair removal. Adults have body hair. Children do not.
Wait, do people seriously think that the beauty standard that has women remove body hair is because men want them to look prepubescent??
yes. that is a common take from the angry feminist crowd who have extremist takes and think everything anyone does is a product of their internalized misogyny or something.
what’s so funny is they don’t seem to understand how their takes are active reinforcement of those same things they tend to be against… and their views are incredibly sexist and reductionist… but hey THEY ARE DOING IT FOR FREEDUMB from gender oppression so it’s totally cool if they hypersexualize people… and children.
What exactly am I doing then when I shave my armpits as a man? I’m so confused, help me!
shaving ur armpits as a man means 🥚
No, pretty sure that’s not it. It must be something about repressing women!
The patriarchal society we live in finds natural body hair on women to be grotesque. The norm in this society is for women to remove their body hair in order for their bodies to resemble, at least in this aspect, those of prepubescent children.
If you actually look at the history of body hair removal, it’s almost always been associated with cleanliness and purity and from there social status.
The modern variation started with darwinism and the assertion that body hair was more primitive and undeveloped. Hairlessness was then cast as more evolved. Spectrum of ape to human has a clear hair gradient, so obviously less hair means less ape-ish, and hence more desirable.
In the past few hundred years the evolution aspect has been giving way to the purity and cleanliness aspect again.The sexism is in who our society finds purity and cleanliness more important for. Trying to tie that double standard back to pedophillia just makes people more prone to dismiss the entire thing.
The driving factor can be seen more in how people talk about beards, but also womens. People say clean shaven men look clean, professional, and so on. We all know what images come to mind if I say to picture a neckbeards room.
People aren’t infantalizing men by appreciating a removal of a prominent secondary sexual characteristic.
For women, you said it yourself:finds natural body hair on women to be grotesque
You didn’t say “old”, or any of the myriad fucked up terms some people have for women older than 25, you said “grotesque”. Society finds it gross or unclean.
The sexism is right on the label. You don’t have to go digging for it.
Society has significantly higher standards for hair removal for women than men, likely related to how society has higher standards of “purity” for women than men. Men have an “out” where the masculinity of male hair can also be positive, but there’s no corresponding feminine hair boost.Yes bro, I shave my manbush because I want to be mistaken for a preteen boy, not because it’s unpleasant, unhygienic, and I hate cleaning up pubes from the bathroom floor, or any other practical consideration.
like that it gets itchy/uncomfortable AF when you work out? nah, that can’t be it.
Unless you identify as a woman and/or are a fem presenting nb or ajacent, what was written wasn’t intended to be inclusive of you.
You can shave your manbush for whatever manreasons you manlike. But I get the feeling though that you probably very much mandislike seeing women with hairy legs.
And women can’t?
That’s very clearly not the reason though, as those same beauty standards emphasize post-pubescent secondary sexual characteristics a lot too (big boobs, hips, butts, full lips).
The common thread seems to be just a way to hyper-differentiate from masculinity. In this patriarchal binary beauty standard, the most non-masculine woman is the same as the most feminine (assuming they also have those secondary sexual characteristics, otherwise you dip into androgeny). Basically, if you already have feminine qualities, then less man=more woman. It’s why tall or more muscular women are seen as less feminine, not because they aren’t childlike FFS.
Men have more body hair, therefore manlier men are hairier, and by extension the more feminine women have the least body hair.
Patriarchal society values youth and beauty in women above all else, and the older a girl gets, the hairier she becomes.
Individual aesthetic reasons for hair removal on female bodies are valid, but these choices are still being made within the society we live in and are often still made in order to conform to it.
I’m not so quick to immediately jump on the “omg it’s pedophilia!” bandwagon. It’s lazy and needlessly inflammatory. If everything is pedophilia than nothing is pedophilia. That’s a charge we should reserve for very rare occasions.
Certainly not when the null hypothesis works just fine. Male and female beauty standards are cultural, but they’re not completely arbitrary. They’re mostly just exaggerated versions of actual physical sex differences. Women on average have fuller lips than men. So we wear lipstick to accentuate this. Men tend to go bald more often, so women’s beauty standards contrasts this by tending towards long and highly styled hair. Men traditionally go for short haircuts or no hair at all, again accentuating male secondary sex characteristics. Women on average tend to have less body hair then men. So women’s beauty standards tend to encourage its complete removal.
Beauty standards are subjective, but they’re not just pulled arbitrarily from a hat. No one ever sat down one day, spun a big wheel and said, “ok, by spin of the wheel, women have to shave their bodies but get to have long hair!” Beauty standards are largely just exaggerations of actual biological sex differences.
I just don’t like hair in my mouth, fuck off.
And you are valid in your preference. So are women who chose to remove their body hair for whatever reasons. Nothing I wrote has stated otherwise.
Your gut reaction here says a lot more about you than it does me.
No, you’re just making a lot of assumptions about people without actually knowing anything about the stuff you seem to think you’re an expert on. “patriarchal society” doesn’t want women to look prepubescent, people just have preferences for about 1 million different reasons, that don’t necesarily have anything to do with pre pubescence. By blaming patriarchal society, you’re insinuating that men are the problem, and that men in general want to fuck children. So I will say again, fuck off, and add, get a grip.
What a thoroughly dumb take.
Empty glasses have nothing in them.
Glasses of piss have piss in them.
When you pour yourself a glass of water it’s because you secretly want to drink piss.
Man, now everybody knows my secret to being able to drink water. It taste disgusting but if you imagine it’s sweet sweet piss then suddenly everything’s gravy.
Mmmmm, piss gravy 🤤 homer simpson drooling noises
That’s basically me but imagine it with a beard and an erection.
I’ll try not to…
Now I’m trying really hard not too, oh god!
Do you get to decide the proper hairstyle for every class of person?
…why…do you not think she doesn’t buy different panties? It’s the first woman’s photo, and they’re not even necessarily hers either. I seriously need to understand your thought process here.
My thought process is that she is insinuating something from those bows that doesnt seem based in reality. Its far more likely that the panties have a bow because its cute and aesthetically pleasing than it is big panty pushing an infantizing agenda.
But you specifically referred to the reply, and specifically asked why she’s buying them when there is zero indication she does, and she uses the word infantilize, a generally negative word.
“If you don’t like it, you don’t have to buy it”
Paired with the idea that it might not be that serious, and it’s just a product that’s sold to people who will buy it, I think he makes sense here.
Eloise would probably respond that internalized sexism makes women want the bow as well, because society makes women want what men want…or something like that
Eloise needs to work on her own internalized misogyny if she thinks women’s consumption and clothing choices are all predicated on what men find attractive.
“A man will only want me if my panties have a bow”
Girl, that man should want you well before he has seen your panties.
I mean, I agree the comment is mostly ragebait or not serious. However, I wanted to mention that you may be underestimating how large a proportion of women’s knickers have this bow. I usually cut them off, as they are just annoying, but honestly in my experience, the vast majority of knickers have this.
There are 100% tons of people who completely unironically believe that shit and are vocal about it. On here, even, plenty of them.
They act just like racists do. Whatever you talk about it always comes back to immigrants and how bad they are.
There are plenty of bowless underwear available online and at most retailers from several brands. If women stopped buying the bow the market wouldn’t be so flooded with them. There’s definitely a lot out there with the bow but i doubt it would be hard to find basic underwear without the bow. If you want more lacey and floral designs, i could see it being harder to find bowless underwear.
Because the bow doesn’t infantilize women, women infantilize themselves. You know what’s infant like? Throwing a tantrum over nothing.
Very true. Every tantrum I’ve ever witnessed ends with the person laughing. All of them.
I mean there are Boxers that look a certain way too, like a little suit for example. Same decorative stance to make the underwear look a certain way inviting.
Not gonna lie, i consider that little button and flap aesthetic. 99% of the time i just pull the elastic down. Its easier and faster than fiddling with some button and pulling my bits through the hole
So it’s a vestigial bow?
It’s underwear. Literally no one besides your significant other is going to see it.
Also yay, 90% of the comments are men arguing for women.
nonbinary arguing noises
The three genders
He beat me to it >: (
The fourth gender
I like the bow because it helps me identify the front when dressing in the dark.
Usually mens underpants come with the inside label at the rear. Ever since a kid I’ve used it to quickly identify the back without even looking. Then a few months ago I bought some boxers which have the label on the side! I know it should be as easy as knowing it’s on the left or right but for some reason I can’t remember this. It takes longer for me to put them on.
i like the bow because it makes me feel pretty when i drop my pants to use the toilet
Really? I can imagine Don Draper saying “… and we put a little bow, just here on the front of the panties, because when women use the toilet, they’ll feel pretty”. And, it seems convincing to a room full of men, but then when women hear it they snicker because in reality women don’t care.
Among other things.
What else would one drop to use the toilet?
The mic
Shorts. A skirt.
A beat
Skiddlyoddendohdoh
It’s a scat, man!
I usually lift a skirt, personally. Not having to undress as much to use the bathroom is one of the benefits of wearing one. Especially when it’s cold.
For me it really depends. Sometimes up is easier. Sometimes down is easier. Just depends on the situation.
Why do you get dressed in the dark?
Am vampire
“To be infantilized by men, which is one of women’s fetishes”.
i wish i could find a girl who didn’t want to be infantilized . it’s shockingly difficult.
I don’t understand the appeal of it. it’s weird af and it actively turns me off.
This is entirely my own experience and may be coincidental (I can’t be arsed to search to see if this is even a thing) but, listening to “Dr Drew” on love line in the 90’s (late night radio), this stuck with me. He was talking about how often women who talk in infantile voices were often abused in their youth. The age/development period in which they were abused can lock them in to a part of that mindset.
Two women I have dated, did this on occasion. They would just drop into a juvenile voice when dealing with something that involved high emotion. In both cases, they confirmed that they had been subjected to physical in one case, and sexual abuse in the other. Re-enforced that one-off conversation I heard when I was little. Yes, the voice annoys me but had I not heard that one-off line from Dr. Drew, I would have probably not had the same level of empathy. The first time I brought up the Dr. Drew conversation, it caused her to break down in front of me.
Needless to say, it may not be something that they can control?
I mean a lot of people just have their voices become higher pitched when they are upset or hysterical it doesn’t necessarily mean they’ve been traumatized. Your throat literally contracts haha
There’s a huge difference between infantilization and merely speaking in a high voice.
Real
the few women I have dated who weren’t into it, were European. As in raised outside of North American culture. Europeans seem to actually take pride in being adults, which North Americans seem to hate being. I don’t get it at all.
Now that I’m older it’s downright creepy to with a 35+ adult woman who just whips out a baby voice and calls me daddy and thinks she is ‘sexy’ for doing so. ugh.
Nah as a European it’s a thing here too, but would probably say it’s more common here in the UK than on the continent.
American here. Can’t speak for anyone but myself, but I’ve always seen adulthood as the culmination of my loss of freedom and the beginning stages of the rest of my life as a laboring drone. I didn’t actually enjoy much of the first decade of adulthood because I spent the whole time surviving a system I simply am not built for. Now that I’ve made it through those harder bits, my body’s starting to wear on me, and I’m not really able to appreciate life like I could have under more accommodating circumstances. It’s hard not to hate adulthood sometimes. The pieces of me that are still childish are kinda the few remaining parts of me that can still experience joy, barring the moments where others make me feel pathetic for still being childish as an adult.
That said, I agree that the baby voice and daddy stuff just…doesn’t do it for me. I try not to yuck yums, and I know the world of sex is as complicated and diverse as the humans who engage in it, so I’ll just say it’s not for me and leave it at that.
If you’re lucky somebody eventually contributes the truth, but people who assume evil by default tend to be the first ones in.
